Thorp and Sailor's Grave Board

LCCC atheists put up ‘gay Jesus’ poster

clevohardcore - 8-22-2008 at 03:05 PM







What a fucking douchbag these kids are.

morgan - 8-22-2008 at 03:21 PM

Is there any basis for this or are they just trying to pis people off? Not religious and can't stand the church but it is fucked up to attack peoples personal beliefs for no reason.

CR83 - 8-22-2008 at 03:53 PM

Good call Morgan. Man, this is a blatant attempt. Maybe they feel the Christians blatantly attack them. Either way, things like this are shitty.

Me on the other hand- put up cartoon Muhammads all day long!

clevohardcore - 8-22-2008 at 03:58 PM

It is the local COMMUNITY COLLEGE and they were/began doing this last semeseter. Now they are just going waay to fucking far.

Discipline - 8-22-2008 at 04:04 PM

I am a devout atheistand loathe all religions with every fibre of my being, but I find this kind of stuff stupid. It's nothing but trying for shock value. If you want to argue against religion, do it in an intelligent manner.

SS76 - 8-22-2008 at 04:38 PM

Shock value rules. Its the only interesting value. Fuck values.

Siczine.com - 8-22-2008 at 05:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
I am a devout atheistand loathe all religions with every fibre of my being, but I find this kind of stuff stupid. It's nothing but trying for shock value. If you want to argue against religion, do it in an intelligent manner.


Do you not believe in the idea of a god/supreme being/etc.,?

And personally I think atheism is idiotic because it's just another religion. Saying there is no god is just as the same as saying there is a god.

Discipline - 8-22-2008 at 06:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Siczine.com
Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
I am a devout atheistand loathe all religions with every fibre of my being, but I find this kind of stuff stupid. It's nothing but trying for shock value. If you want to argue against religion, do it in an intelligent manner.


Do you not believe in the idea of a god/supreme being/etc.,?

And personally I think atheism is idiotic because it's just another religion. Saying there is no god is just as the same as saying there is a god.


I don't believe in any higher power, life after death, nothing. I don't see atheism as a set of beliefs, but rather a lack of belief. Not the same thing.

JawnDiablo - 8-22-2008 at 07:30 PM

that poster's just stupid.
just like that Piss Christ painting that guy did years ago.
i'm not religious, but i really don't get off trying to piss off people by mocking their faith.
i can't stand preachy religious types that want you to conform / convert to their ideas, and their argueing about how everyone is wrong but them.
i chose not to share my ideas cause im just not interested in talking about it with them.
i'm not quite an athiest, its just that anyone that ive ever encountered who is mega christian usually has some major personality flaws, and has turned me off to all of it.

DaveMoral - 8-22-2008 at 08:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by CR83
Good call Morgan. Man, this is a blatant attempt. Maybe they feel the Christians blatantly attack them. Either way, things like this are shitty.

Me on the other hand- put up cartoon Muhammads all day long!


Ah, so thanks for even joking that you're being a douche and offending MY religious beliefs.

Seriously, this thing isn't just offensive to Christians, it's offensive to Muslims as well.

Why is it "shitty" to do this kind of Jesus poster and not shitty to mock Muhammad?

Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.

XHonusWagnerX - 8-22-2008 at 08:41 PM

wow... lot going on in this thread.

I dont have anything of value to add, but I have a question.

Whats the difference between ATHIEST and AGNOSTIC?

xChino_Martinezx - 8-22-2008 at 09:43 PM

atheism, buddism, christianity, hare krishna, islam, believing, not believing, being straight edge, smoking weed, being heterosexual, being gay: it's all about personal choices...

we must care for ourselves and respect other people's beliefs or lack of beliefs or the way they carry on with their lives and let them be in peace... mocking jesus, mocking islam, mocking hare krishna and mocking whatever a person believes in is insulting...

always think of this: it's like someone mocking your family, you'll get mad and offended because they're messing with something that is important to you, something you care for, something you love and live for... it's the same with religion, even if you don't like it or don't agree with it, no one is forcing you to be a part of it, but never be a prick and make fun of it just 'cause you have a different opinion... if a certain belief or way of life makes a person happy, good for them, as long as they don't harm others, it's all good...

questioning a person's beliefs or lack of beliefs or their way of life and trying to convince them of the opposite is being the same as that prick that questioned Discipline's t-shirt the other day: that douch was filled with ignorance and he had the stupid idea that it was gay to wear a t-shirt of someone he didn't knew... it's stupid to make fun of something you don't...

whatever you believe on: be happy! be wise! be safe! and live on! or not! what ever makes you happy! after all, it is supposed to be a free world, just don't fuck with anyone if you don't want them to fuck with you...

personally, I try to educate myself the most I can and live my life without harming others and giving respect to those who respect me and demanding respect from those I give respect to...

morgan - 8-23-2008 at 02:23 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
wow... lot going on in this thread.

I dont have anything of value to add, but I have a question.

Whats the difference between ATHIEST and AGNOSTIC?


From what I understand an Atheist believes there is no form of higher power or afterlife or anything of that nature. An Agnostic believes that there is no way that it can be proven whether there is or isn't a higher power. That just the way I understand it.

A serious question for DaveMoral: Why is it in Islam that any image of Muhammad is forbidden and considered highly offensive? I only ask because I'm curious.

BDx13 - 8-23-2008 at 07:30 AM

honus...
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnostic
- http://www.religioustolerance.org/agnostic.htm

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
- http://www.religioustolerance.org/atheist.htm

the religious tolerance site has a lot of interesting reading.

clevohardcore - 8-23-2008 at 07:41 AM

athiest = no religion. rejects the idea.

agnostic = Unsure, but does not follow. Not committed to anything.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 12:06 PM

I got niiiiiiiiiihilism...........

DaveMoral - 8-23-2008 at 03:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by morgan
Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
wow... lot going on in this thread.

I dont have anything of value to add, but I have a question.

Whats the difference between ATHIEST and AGNOSTIC?


From what I understand an Atheist believes there is no form of higher power or afterlife or anything of that nature. An Agnostic believes that there is no way that it can be proven whether there is or isn't a higher power. That just the way I understand it.

A serious question for DaveMoral: Why is it in Islam that any image of Muhammad is forbidden and considered highly offensive? I only ask because I'm curious.


Morgan, it's not really that it's highly offensive to depict Muhammad. Muslims have done this for centuries. There's a strain of particularly ignorant Muslims in the world right now, called Wahhabis or Salafis from which you're getting most of your so-called "Islamofascists." They are particularly strict about this particular thing, some won't even have their own picture taken. There's a certain kind of iconoclasm in Islam that forbids images of human and animal forms in the mosque to draw a distinction between Islamic monotheism and the polytheism of the ancient Semitic world... as well as a disctinction between Islamic monotheism and Christian trinitarianism that is highly dependent upon images of Christ. Because of the reverence in which Muhammad was held in his day he told his followers never to make an image of him so that they wouldn't go too far in their reverence to the point of worship. It's said that of all the things found in the Kaaba when the Muslims captured Medina from the pagan Arabs Muhammad allowed a fresco of Mary and Jesus to remain on the walls while destroying the idols of the pagans. It really has a lot more to do with the worship of the images. Shia Muslims have long had images of the Prophet and the 12 Imams. In Iraq today you can find t-shirts with images of the Imams on them or giant murals or banners.

There is a long tradition of Muslim art though, and in Iran there's a very long tradition of the "Persian minature" which often depict Muhammad. Sometimes with a blank space in place of a face, somtimes with a face... sometimes with light radiating from the face, other times veiled. I'll post a couple examples.








The only form of art really strictly taboo amongst Muslims and thus you don't find much example of it at all is sculpture.

clevohardcore - 8-23-2008 at 04:00 PM

Ya for Muslims you can never depict what the artist believes to be the form of Allah. In a way is kind of what things really are. Same with the Christian God. He is omnipotent. Maybe you have seen some artist give GOd a beard and white flowing robe but the idea is not supposed to have a form of man.

Discipline - 8-23-2008 at 04:50 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.


Never looked at it that way. Interesting point. I guess you can call me a nihilist then. I don't believe in jack shit. We live, we die, that's all I believe in. It's not that I follow a scientific point of view as a opposed to a religious one, I just don't believe in anything.

I still say that religion is the greatest evil the world has ever faced. Not any one religion, but all of them combined. While it's generally the fanatics that start the problems as opposed to all that follow any particular relation, quite often mob mentality follows and the many others will join the cause.

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral

Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.


Exactly my point in regards to atheism. It is just another religion.

DaveMoral - 8-23-2008 at 05:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.


Never looked at it that way. Interesting point. I guess you can call me a nihilist then. I don't believe in jack shit. We live, we die, that's all I believe in. It's not that I follow a scientific point of view as a opposed to a religious one, I just don't believe in anything.

I still say that religion is the greatest evil the world has ever faced. Not any one religion, but all of them combined. While it's generally the fanatics that start the problems as opposed to all that follow any particular relation, quite often mob mentality follows and the many others will join the cause.


Meh, I'd not be so quick the put that onus on religion. I put the onus on men of wicked intent. Regardless of the belief system they subscribe to.. if they want money, power, land and resources they'll do whatever they can to get it. Manipulate the teachings of religions, create political and economic systems and manipulate them further. I mean, look at Communism... that's probably killed more people in the 20th century for going against its tenets than any religious war or pogrom did in 2 centuries. Communism is an atheist ideology. Hell, Western democratic capitalism has probably been responsible for more death and destruction in a century than religion too.

Religion gets a bad rap because we associate the "dark ages" with religion's dominance of Europe. Which was a bad time, sure. Conversely, the Muslim world of that time period was at its prime in the arts and sciences... while being ruled according to Islamic religious law. It was in that time period when the Muslim religious scholar whose opinions essentially form the basis for the Wahhabi and Salafi "fundamentalist" movements in the modern Muslim world came along... and he was decried as a heretic by the majority of his religious scholar contemporaries. Makes ya think...

Clevo, Muslims don't just have a taboo against depicting what someone's "conception" of God is... anyone that has any sort of idea of God in a form of any kind has essentially become an idolator. We don't make God in our own image, and even the 99 names of God that Muslims use aren't considered to be the same as the Essential Being of God... which is not only indescribable.. it's not contemplatable. It is literally the Absolute in the grandest sense.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 05:58 PM

Religion is all make believe. If you believe in any kind of god or devil, you might as well believe in santa or the tooth fairy. Can you really prove there's no santa claus?

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.


Never looked at it that way. Interesting point. I guess you can call me a nihilist then. I don't believe in jack shit. We live, we die, that's all I believe in. It's not that I follow a scientific point of view as a opposed to a religious one, I just don't believe in anything.

I still say that religion is the greatest evil the world has ever faced. Not any one religion, but all of them combined. While it's generally the fanatics that start the problems as opposed to all that follow any particular relation, quite often mob mentality follows and the many others will join the cause.


Meh, I'd not be so quick the put that onus on religion. I put the onus on men of wicked intent. Regardless of the belief system they subscribe to.. if they want money, power, land and resources they'll do whatever they can to get it. Manipulate the teachings of religions, create political and economic systems and manipulate them further. I mean, look at Communism... that's probably killed more people in the 20th century for going against its tenets than any religious war or pogrom did in 2 centuries. Communism is an atheist ideology. Hell, Western democratic capitalism has probably been responsible for more death and destruction in a century than religion too.

Religion gets a bad rap because we associate the "dark ages" with religion's dominance of Europe. Which was a bad time, sure. Conversely, the Muslim world of that time period was at its prime in the arts and sciences... while being ruled according to Islamic religious law. It was in that time period when the Muslim religious scholar whose opinions essentially form the basis for the Wahhabi and Salafi "fundamentalist" movements in the modern Muslim world came along... and he was decried as a heretic by the majority of his religious scholar contemporaries. Makes ya think...

Clevo, Muslims don't just have a taboo against depicting what someone's "conception" of God is... anyone that has any sort of idea of God in a form of any kind has essentially become an idolator. We don't make God in our own image, and even the 99 names of God that Muslims use aren't considered to be the same as the Essential Being of God... which is not only indescribable.. it's not contemplatable. It is literally the Absolute in the grandest sense.


From the little bit of reading I have done on the antiquities, the Muslim world during the period of 750-1000 flourished. They absorbed aspects of Greco-Roman culture as well as the Byzantines and Persians. They also were responsible for saving and spreading many of the scientific and philosophical works of ancient civilizations. And can't forget the contributions of Al-Khwarizimi, who created algebra.

However, the Islam world was racked by corruption due to their prosperity. The Abbasid dynasty constantly fought over succession to the caliphate.

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 06:19 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shootingscars
Religion is all make believe. If you believe in any kind of god or devil, you might as well believe in santa or the tooth fairy. Can you really prove there's no santa claus?


That's a really asinine statement.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 06:27 PM

I believe in things I can see.

Discipline - 8-23-2008 at 06:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Meh, I'd not be so quick the put that onus on religion. I put the onus on men of wicked intent. Regardless of the belief system they subscribe to.. if they want money, power, land and resources they'll do whatever they can to get it. Manipulate the teachings of religions, create political and economic systems and manipulate them further. I mean, look at Communism... that's probably killed more people in the 20th century for going against its tenets than any religious war or pogrom did in 2 centuries. Communism is an atheist ideology. Hell, Western democratic capitalism has probably been responsible for more death and destruction in a century than religion too.

Religion gets a bad rap because we associate the "dark ages" with religion's dominance of Europe. Which was a bad time, sure. Conversely, the Muslim world of that time period was at its prime in the arts and sciences... while being ruled according to Islamic religious law. It was in that time period when the Muslim religious scholar whose opinions essentially form the basis for the Wahhabi and Salafi "fundamentalist" movements in the modern Muslim world came along... and he was decried as a heretic by the majority of his religious scholar contemporaries. Makes ya think...


It may be men of wicked intent, but religion is the tool they use to bring others to their cause.

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 06:31 PM

If you don't believe in things you can't "see", such as a devil then whats up with your signature?

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 06:38 PM

just a cool line from a Ramallah song. Religion is fine if you feel you need it. Heaven and hell? C'mon! The amount of ants and mosquitos i've killed in my life, i'm a fuckin genocidal maniac! Life is life, no matter how small. So are they all in bug heaven or hell? Just because we're the smartest species we have divine laws we should follow? To each their own. Native americans got it right, worship the sun. At least its real.

JawnDiablo - 8-23-2008 at 06:51 PM

Santa rules.
Don't none of you talkk smack on st nick or I'll crap in a christmas stocking and mail it to ya via reindeer

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 06:55 PM

I don't subscribe myself to any religion. I find all forms of religion pointless, especially atheism.

I do believe in some higher power though. And I don't believe anything ANY religion preaches about the after life because no one knows. But denouncing the existence of a god is just as stupid as saying there is no god. How the hell do you know? None of us know.

And your use of the term genocide is wrong.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 06:59 PM

not really. I'm deliberately trying to wipe their species(ants and mosquitos) off the planet.

Siczine.com - 8-23-2008 at 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shootingscars
not really. I'm deliberately trying to wipe their species(ants and mosquitos) off the planet.


Genocide is the deliberate and systematic destruction, in whole or in part, of an ethnic, racial, religious, or national group.

No insect falls under those categories.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 07:03 PM

the ones I'm killing all worship the same gods though.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 07:05 PM

Mosquitus Christ and Ant Jemima

DaveMoral - 8-23-2008 at 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Shootingscars
just a cool line from a Ramallah song. Religion is fine if you feel you need it. Heaven and hell? C'mon! The amount of ants and mosquitos i've killed in my life, i'm a fuckin genocidal maniac! Life is life, no matter how small. So are they all in bug heaven or hell? Just because we're the smartest species we have divine laws we should follow? To each their own. Native americans got it right, worship the sun. At least its real.


Obviously you don't know jack shit about Native American religion bro.

They believe in Wankan Tanka(that's the Souix word anyway, there's other names) which means Great Spirit/Great Mystery. Unseen creator deity. There're numerous spirits.. animal spirits, Mother Earth, Father Sky, the spirits of the East, West, North and South.

The funny thing is, the presumption that because you can't see it it doesn't exist is just... it's a logical fallacy. Nevermind that there're things within the physical realm that are beyond YOUR ability to percieve without either specialized equipment or other means of measure. For instance, can you see gravity? Can you see electro-magnetism? You see their effects, but you don't actually see them. Let alone microbes, bacteria etc. It goes beyond that. You can't see molecules or atoms, or subatomic particles... yet I'm sure you believe they exist because some scientist or science book told you they exist. This is the same logic as having blind faith in a religious book.

There's also the presumption that because YOU aren't capable of observing something in any manner that no one else capable of observing something in any manner. It couldn't possibly be that people believe in the existence of a Higher Power because of things they've experienced and not because they read it in a book or were told/taught to believe in It.

Mike, sure religion has been the tool of the wicked in the past... when it was the most effective tool for manipulating people to their whim. That's no longer case, and worse atrocities have been done by manipulating people through politics, nationalism, racism, patriotism etc. To blame religion, which more often than not actually has a more universal outlook on human beings as be part of the same human family than the previously mentioned ideologies/concepts, is just short sighted. Blame is due where blame is due, and I think that rests far more on the shoulders of greedy men than it does upon the shoulders of ancient mystics that were trying to uplift their people and improve the world around them.

CR83 - 8-23-2008 at 10:33 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Quote:
Originally posted by CR83
Good call Morgan. Man, this is a blatant attempt. Maybe they feel the Christians blatantly attack them. Either way, things like this are shitty.

Me on the other hand- put up cartoon Muhammads all day long!


Ah, so thanks for even joking that you're being a douche and offending MY religious beliefs.

Seriously, this thing isn't just offensive to Christians, it's offensive to Muslims as well.

Why is it "shitty" to do this kind of Jesus poster and not shitty to mock Muhammad?

Mike, atheism is the belief that there is no Higher Power. There's no way one can empirically/scientifically prove there is no god just as one cannot empiricaly/scientifically prove there is a God. Lack of belief in God means one has to believe there is no god. Atheism can't be absent of belief. More importantly, it's a religious belief that there is no God.

Closest thing one could come to a lack of belief is perhaps nihilism, but even that is the belief that nothing really matters.



Dave, I was just kidding Bud. I really meant no offense about cartoons. I was just being sarcastic. Sorry Man.

JawnDiablo - 8-23-2008 at 10:45 PM

there was a point in my life where i would engage in arguements and trying to out wit people on the subject of religious stuff. these days , i just want to be left alone, so i leave it alone.

Jason the Magnificent - 8-23-2008 at 10:53 PM

Arguing about peoples imaginary friends is kind of pointless.

I believe I'll have another beer.

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 11:23 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Jason the Magnificent
Arguing about peoples imaginary friends is kind of pointless.

I believe I'll have another beer.

:thumbup:

JawnDiablo - 8-23-2008 at 11:25 PM

lets coordinate a thorp online toast
i say midnite.
get yer mugs ready

SS76 - 8-23-2008 at 11:28 PM

one beer left after this one...I'll save that terrible beast(milwaukees) for 33 more minutes..

Jason the Magnificent - 8-24-2008 at 12:00 AM

Christ I'm on coffee now. Went to the P's for a BBQ and ate so damn much I feel sick...sipping coffee now trying to digest.

Polished off quite a few Sammy Cream Stouts earlier.

SS76 - 8-24-2008 at 12:03 AM

Had a six of them earlier in the week and tried one bottle of Dragon stout. Made by red stripe, fucking terrible.

morgan - 8-24-2008 at 03:26 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by juandiablo
lets coordinate a thorp online toast
i say midnite.
get yer mugs ready


I've been drinking since about 9:30. Pretty sure I had some form of alcohol in my hand at midnight.

And thanks to DaveMoral for the information. Interesting information. Guess I can say I learned something.

Discipline - 8-24-2008 at 11:06 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Siczine.com
I don't subscribe myself to any religion. I find all forms of religion pointless, especially atheism.

I do believe in some higher power though. And I don't believe anything ANY religion preaches about the after life because no one knows. But denouncing the existence of a god is just as stupid as saying there is no god. How the hell do you know? None of us know.


You're right, I don't know if there is a God, but how is saying that more stupid than saying there is one?

Lucabrasi - 8-24-2008 at 11:18 AM

Siczine.com - 8-24-2008 at 05:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Quote:
Originally posted by Siczine.com
I don't subscribe myself to any religion. I find all forms of religion pointless, especially atheism.

I do believe in some higher power though. And I don't believe anything ANY religion preaches about the after life because no one knows. But denouncing the existence of a god is just as stupid as saying there is no god. How the hell do you know? None of us know.


You're right, I don't know if there is a God, but how is saying that more stupid than saying there is one?


Nowhere did I say that it was more stupid, I said it was just as stupid, which it is. I will admit my wording in the above quotes could've been better.

Jason the Magnificent - 8-24-2008 at 06:29 PM

I don't know about all that. Regardless of what do you believe, you're trying to say believing in something that has no real evidence is 'as' stupid as not believing in something that has no real evidence? You're stretching it a bit there.

Siczine.com - 8-24-2008 at 07:01 PM

I don't see how. It's completely logical and aligns fairly well with many forms of agnosticism, especially hard agnosticism, and mild agnosticism.

Edit: By the way, I didn't talk about believing Jason. Believing is different from saying for certain there is a god or saying for certain there is no god.

SS76 - 8-24-2008 at 07:01 PM

So jesus goes into a motel, slaps three nails on the counter and says "hey, can you put me up for the night?"