Who wins tonights debateh

clevohardcore - 10-7-2008 at 02:08 PM

Are you watching it? I am, but the electoral college will be deciding for us either way come November 8th.

BDx13 - 10-7-2008 at 02:18 PM

i will.
this will be the first for me.
town hall format should be interesting.

SS76 - 10-7-2008 at 02:27 PM

Yes. The SNL skits makes alot more sense if you've seen the actual debate. And Mcain is so old he might expire on stage if we're lucky.

clevohardcore - 10-7-2008 at 03:59 PM

The thing about tonights debates is that they are now finally supposed to do battle. Last one was tame but now the gloves are off and now they throw punches. And just like any boxing match, all your money should be on the black guy. :lol:

Talking points won't work in town hall

BDx13 - 10-7-2008 at 04:48 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081007/pl_politico/14363

Alexander Burns, Avi Zenilman
58 minutes ago

With just two debates left before the Nov. 4 election, Sens. John McCain and Barack Obama go into their Tuesday night face-off in Nashville, Tenn., with high expectations for their performances.

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Despite the temptation to fall back on their carefully focused, well-worn campaign messages, the format of the debate — a town hall meeting — demands that they deliver more than just a few stump-speech zingers in order to claim victory.

In the tightly structured, rule-bound world of modern presidential debates, the town hall debate is something of an anomaly — an unscripted setting where candidates come face to face with undecided voters in front of a national television audience.

It’s true, audience members will be carefully screened. Candidates won’t be able to walk outside a certain pre-set area. And responses and rebuttals will be vigilantly timed.

But even with these strictures in place, the town hall format is an entirely different challenge for candidates than debating from a podium, or seated at a Sunday talk show-style table. As they stroll around the stage with their opponents, presidential candidates have to somehow look dignified and polite at the same time as they engage their rivals. The setting is more intimate, making it harder to dodge a question or revert to a scripted answer.

“As a candidate, not only do you have to be mindful that you really need to respond at a substantive level, you also have to respond and answer it at an emotional level,” said Democratic strategist Chris Lehane.

“You have this big peril, where someone asks you a really smart question,” Lehane said, “and [you] give them a canned answer.”

In 2004, President Bush stumbled over a question asking him to name three mistakes he’d made in office, and he instead recited familiar talking points about the war in Iraq. He won the election anyway, but it was not the finest moment of his campaign.

“There’s a degree of empathy you need to come up with for a town hall that’s not necessarily true if you’re talking to reporters,” said Benjamin Ginsberg, a Republican lawyer who helped with debate preparation for Bush in 2000. “It depends on the candidate and how they feel about answering the questions.”

In past town hall debates, presidential contenders have routed their opponents by connecting on a visceral level with the audience. In 1992, for example, then-Arkansas Gov. Bill Clinton responded to a question about the deficit’s effect on ordinary people by citing his experience as “governor of a small state.”

“In my state, when people lose their jobs, there’s a good chance I’ll know them by their names,” Clinton said, creating a palpable, personal connection with the audience. “When a factory closes, I know the people who ran it.”

Clinton’s chief opponent, incumbent President George H. W. Bush, also had a notable moment in the debate: He checked his watch in the middle of the same voter’s question, crystallizing the country’s impression of him as a man out of touch with their problems.

“Are you suggesting,” Bush retorted, “that if somebody has means, that the national debt doesn’t affect them?”

Under different circumstances — debating from behind a podium, with a moderator directing the questions — neither Clinton nor the elder Bush would have been able to interact with voters so closely, or to such great effect.

“Even if the questions may be similar to what a moderator asks, it’s great for Americans to see an average person ask them,” said Frank Newport, the editor-in-chief of Gallup, which has selected the crowd of uncommitted voters for every general election town hall debate.

At the same time that candidates work to connect with their questioners, they also must appear comfortable sharing the stage with their opponents. That can be a challenging task for nominees, such as McCain, who hope to level sharp criticism at their competitors.

“Strong, harsh attacks either at the questioners or the opponent don’t go off as well,” said Democratic consultant Jenny Backus, a veteran of presidential debate prep. “It’s a lot harder to directly attack your opponent or go negative because there’s an expectation, built in right away, that you have to answer the voter’s question.”

In 2000, during his town hall debate with the younger Bush, then the governor of Texas, Vice President Al Gore attempted to intimidate the Republican nominee by striding slowly toward him as Bush began to answer a question.

Bush briefly turned toward Gore and nodded dismissively, drawing attention to the Democrat’s threatening gesture in a way that made it look awkward and artificial — and helped cement Gore’s reputation, earned in the first debate, as an overbearing, hostile debater.

At the same time, said Ginsberg, candidates should not feel too bound by the town hall structure, especially if they have criticisms that they want to convey to the wider television audience.

“It depends completely on the context,” Ginsberg said. “What you have to be aware of in the format is to talk back to the questioner. At the same time, you’re addressing the broader population that is watching the debate.”

Plus, Ginsberg cautioned, the town hall format often is not as casual as some believe, and it doesn’t always make for truly authentic interactions.

“In the town hall format, it’s still the moderator that selects which of the questions are going to be asked,” he said. “It’s not a random pick of questions.”

David Lanoue, a political scientist at the University of Alabama, said that campaigns have imposed more restrictions on town hall debates over the years, and there is not as much give-and-take as there used to be.

“The 1992 ones were probably the most free-flowing,” he said. “The questions now are more likely to be pre-screened. That makes the whole thing less spontaneous than they used to be.”

The audience at Tuesday’s debate will comprise undecided voters — Americans who have not made up their minds about the election or who have expressed only a slight preference for one candidate or the other — and they will meet with NBC’s Tom Brokaw, the town hall’s moderator, in advance of the event to discuss their questions.

An official with the Commission on Presidential Debates asserted that the audience’s meeting with Brokaw was designed to prompt diversity in the questions, not to screen any out.

“Largely, it is to make sure there aren’t duplicates and a large variety of topics are covered,” said the official, who noted that town hall debates have proved to be some of the most popular in previous election cycles.

Siczine.com - 10-7-2008 at 09:28 PM

I've watch/listened to every debate thus far. So far Obama is handling his business. Both of them need to do a better job of staying below around a minute though.

BDx13 - 10-7-2008 at 11:44 PM

i kinda feel bad for mccain
he really came across as angry, petty and demeaning tonight.

Murk - 10-8-2008 at 01:22 AM

i tuned it for about 10 minutes.

McCain accused Obama of wanting to raise taxes on small businesses.

Obama clarified that his plan only included incomes of over $250,000.

according to him, most small biz don't make this mark.

then, i turned it off.

DaveMoral - 10-8-2008 at 01:59 AM

I think what pisses me off about McCain is that he keeps talking about how he's all about putting his country first... well, c'mon. That's bullshit. No one runs for president because they want to serve... they do it because they want to be the most powerful motherfucker on the planet.

Secondly, he's implying that Obama doesn't put his country first, and you gotta see that as a worse smear than Palin saying Obama "pals around with domestic terrorists" in reference to that dude that used to be in the Weather Underground. Which is basically saying dude's a terrorist himself, then it gets into the whole race issue. Especially when they're all like "he's not like us."

I hate this country, I really quite often do. Especially our political system.

JawnDiablo - 10-8-2008 at 06:27 AM

i watched 20 minutes or so.
i saw nothing but mudslinging, as i thought i would.
but
Obama over McCain for me.
I don't even like hearing McCain speak.

"That one"

BDx13 - 10-8-2008 at 11:51 AM

in case you missed it, this came off REALLY awkward:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/that-one-mccain-cal...
this is the kinda shit you say to your kid or some fucker you're about to punch.

DaveMoral - 10-8-2008 at 12:13 PM

McCain's old ass better lose. Seriously. I just don't think we can ever underestimate the racist vote though.

CR83 - 10-8-2008 at 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
The thing about tonights debates is that they are now finally supposed to do battle. Last one was tame but now the gloves are off and now they throw punches. And just like any boxing match, all your money should be on the black guy. :lol:

WOW!! I found myself laughing out loud. Great post.

clevohardcore - 10-8-2008 at 12:41 PM

I missed the debate because I met a friend for a run at the high school track. Talk radio has given most he poitns on it this morning though. McCain is a big douche and Obama is a smaller douche.

DaveMoral - 10-9-2008 at 12:14 AM

Anyone notice McCain referring to Obama as "that one" and just pointing at him?

defstarsteve - 10-9-2008 at 01:49 AM

dude look up at big d's post

Furly - 10-9-2008 at 02:03 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtx97MR08Cg

I stole this from another board. It made me giggle.

defstarsteve - 10-9-2008 at 02:47 AM

my wife pointed it out last...
where is batman when you need him

Siczine.com - 10-9-2008 at 01:05 PM

If I hear McCain say my friend(s) one more time I will lose it.

BDx13 - 10-9-2008 at 01:13 PM

man, i watched that like 11 times in a row.

Discipline - 10-9-2008 at 01:36 PM

Maybe I'm less sensitive to such things, but what's the big deal about McCain referring to Obama as "that one?" I could understand the uproar if he said "black people" or "those people," but to me saying "that one" is no different than saying "that guy."

My two cents for what it's worth.

DaveMoral - 10-9-2008 at 01:52 PM

Well, you couple that with his refusal to even look at Obama in the first debate and the increasingly "not like us" rhetoric he and his lipstick wearing pit bull are using and it's sort of them playing on the "otherness" of Barack Obama despite the dude coming from a much more "everyman" sort of background than McCain.

BDx13 - 10-9-2008 at 01:57 PM

what are you saying, dave?
you're wife didn't bring $100M to the alter?

gavin - 10-9-2008 at 02:00 PM

serious question
so what some of you are saying is that him saying "that one" is some sort of racial jab?

BDx13 - 10-9-2008 at 02:41 PM

it definitely could have been interpreted that way, but ultimately, i don't think so.
i think it was part of the tone that campaign is using to make obama appear different and not like us.
either way, it was awkward as shit.
personally, i think it just further demonstrated mccain's lack of respect (i might go so far as to say disdain) for obama.

you can see it here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/10/07/that-one-mccain-cal...

clevohardcore - 10-9-2008 at 02:48 PM

I'd say its nothing more than him being very "PALIN LIKE" by acting like normal folk and attempting to be funny.

If only McCain asked him "That one", do you mind if I call you "That one"? Much like Palin did with "Joe" Biden.

BDx13 - 10-9-2008 at 03:05 PM

also... the media kept talking about how well mccain does in town hall environment. but those events are typically filled with his supporters, so his attempts at humor are excepted by that crowd and they laugh along.

at the debate, people in the audience were told not to yell out, clap, even show emotion, so jokes that may have worked on a less formal crowd failed miserably. the nailing jello to the wall bit, the hair plug joke, 'that one' all came off awkward.

in my recollection, obama only floated one or two casual/joke type lines - about the straight talk express losing a wheel and his wife keeping a long list of things he's not good at - and they both came off better, in part because they were actually somewhat funny and because he's got a better delivery.

DaveMoral - 10-9-2008 at 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gavin
serious question
so what some of you are saying is that him saying "that one" is some sort of racial jab?

I don't think he necessarily intended it that way, but I think it's meant to emphasize "otherness" on the part of Barack Obama compared to McCain. Thing is, race will definitely be a factor in certain sectors of the electorate when it comes to appeals to "otherness" and fears of "otherness" in the form of Barack Obama. That and supposed "elitism" on the part of Barack Obama... dude's smart as a whip, came from a single parent home and worked his way through school. That's not elite except in terms of educational excellence. McCain more than anyone on either ticket is the kind of "elite" he's conjuring up with these kinds of accusations... he's not "Joe Six-Pack" by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't have enough faith in the American people to think they won't vote McCain though.

gavin - 10-9-2008 at 06:31 PM

ok another serious question...
does the fact that mccain was a p.o.w. get any respect from those who are against him?

BDx13 - 10-9-2008 at 06:58 PM

i think it would be hard not to respect that, regardless of what one things of him as a candidate.

that said...
he crashed four planes in accidents before being shot down.
http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/cin_mccain_l...

and in regards to being shot down, he says in his book that after his plane's warning alarm went off (telling him that another plane had locked on to his and was about to fire), he opted not to divert course to avoid being shot down and instead attempted to deliver the bomb on his plane as planned. some might call that brave, bold, even 'maverick'... others, shortsighted, brash or dumb.

DaveMoral - 10-10-2008 at 01:35 AM

^That's not to mention the ethical/moral questions regarding the entire Vietnam War and just who and what McCain would've been bombing and with what.

What bearing should his having been a POW even have on his candidacy as president anyways? His policies suck, and he has been acting like an asshole.