Slapshot & the bosstones @ the middle east

XHonusWagnerX - 12-28-2008 at 06:44 PM

The bosstones did a 1/2 hour soundcheck and it included them doing what's at stake with Dickey & Choke singing. It was pretty awesome!

Doors are open & I'm doing merch. Sold some stuff so far but not much. Hopefully it picks up alot. Bosstones shirts are $20, the attack shirts are $15 & slapshot shirts are $10 (thanks to def-star!)

XnMeX - 12-28-2008 at 06:52 PM

Def-Star, making $10 dollar shirts a possability since (insert date he started here). Hence why my podcasts shirt are only $10.00. Speaking of which, I have yours boxed and ready to go Honus.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-28-2008 at 09:24 PM

4th song in was "watch me bleed". Choke busted his head open with the mic and after the song he stood there bleeding and shouting "are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?"

Fucking awesome!

MyOwnWay - 12-28-2008 at 09:54 PM

Would love to see both bands.

CR83 - 12-28-2008 at 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
4th song in was "watch me bleed". Choke busted his head open with the mic and after the song he stood there bleeding and shouting "are you not entertained? Are you not entertained?"

Fucking awesome!

Please post pics and thanks for the update.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-28-2008 at 10:29 PM

They played "step on it" as the last song and Steve Risteen (original guitar player) came out & played it with them. First time he's played with them since Sudden Death Overtime.

Bosstones are playing now.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-29-2008 at 12:48 AM

Headed home now. The show was great. Choke did do what's at stake with the bosstones & it was really cool. Not sure if they have ever done that before.

There is merch left. I'll post info tomorrow!

Mark Lind - 12-29-2008 at 09:52 AM

Kids are funny. Sometimes if they see one band selling their shirts for half the price of the headliner then they assume the band is either desperate or of lesser quality. They will also pay anything for a shirt. A good practice is to set prices at the same as the headliner as a courtesy to the host and then the perception to the audience is that everyone is on equal footing.

ShawnRefuse - 12-29-2008 at 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Kids are funny. Sometimes if they see one band selling their shirts for half the price of the headliner then they assume the band is either desperate or of lesser quality. They will also pay anything for a shirt. A good practice is to set prices at the same as the headliner as a courtesy to the host and then the perception to the audience is that everyone is on equal footing.

F-that. I was happy to buy a 10 dollar shirt. It didn't seem desperate at all. It seems desperate when headliners over-charge the shit out of products.

Let's play 5 shows a year and make as much as if we played a full year.

Gotta love capitalism.

30 bucks a ticket, 20-40 a shirt equals a really freaking expensive night. Show some courtesy to the fans. They are the ones who put food on the table for the bands.

Mark Lind - 12-29-2008 at 12:27 PM

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Originally posted by ShawnRefuse

Quote:

I know what you mean. When I read back what I wrote it didn't really convey my point that I was going for. At all.

If Slapshot had sold their shirts for $20 then they would have sold just as many as they did for $10 (maybe even more). Let's face it.... most Bosstones fans aren't exactly used to the idea of punk rock prices. The tickets and shirts cost a lot because that's what their fans are accustomed to paying. These are the same people that pay $35 to $40 for a shirt at a major concert venue.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-29-2008 at 02:53 PM

I understand what Mark is saying, but I really dont think we would have sold just as many shirts. We might have made the same amount of money, but not made as many people happy. We had 4 designs and we had people buying 3 or 4 at a time because of the price. We also had stickers for $1 when the cheapest thing the Bosstones had was a 7" for $8. I had kids paying with change just because they wanted to buy something from the band. The people that bought 3-4 shirts I gave stickers to and they were psyched too.

I disagree with a 'price match' thing because people were there to see the Bosstones which means if shirts were $20 all around they would only buy a Bosstones shirt. Lots of people carry $20-$30 but not as many carry $40-$60. It was an all ages show which means young kids only have so mucn merch money after paying $30 for a ticket and the adults only have so much beer money after paying $30 for a ticket.

All that being said when my old band put out our first CD it was $5 instores. When we did our second, one of the guys said it should be $8-$9 because people think that a $5 CD is shitty and they dont buy it, but they are more likely to spend $10 because they think its something good. Thats not how I think personally, but I do understand it.

Mark Lind - 12-29-2008 at 03:42 PM

$8 for a 7" record is a damn crime. Was it a picture disc at least?

Yeah I don't really get it. But when we were touring with DKM, Ken asked us to match shirt prices with them. I think they were selling theirs for $12 and ours were $10. As soon as we did that then we started selling more shirts. Not just making the extra $2 on each one but also moving more volume. It's a baffling thing to try to wrap your mind around but some kids think increased cost is better quality. Who knows?

ShawnRefuse - 12-29-2008 at 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
$8 for a 7" record is a damn crime. Was it a picture disc at least?

Yeah I don't really get it. But when we were touring with DKM, Ken asked us to match shirt prices with them. I think they were selling theirs for $12 and ours were $10. As soon as we did that then we started selling more shirts. Not just making the extra $2 on each one but also moving more volume. It's a baffling thing to try to wrap your mind around but some kids think increased cost is better quality. Who knows?

I think any t-shirt should be no more than 15. So matching 12 isn't a huge deal plus it was a tour.

But 20 is pretty steep. I agree with what you had to do, but I honestly don't think Slapshot would have sold as many at 20 bucks. I think they could have matched the Attack though and do 15.

Next time we play with you Mark, I think we should sell shirts for $50 then we only need to move one or two for a good night :tumble:

Furly - 12-29-2008 at 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ShawnRefuse

Next time we play with you Mark, I think we should sell shirts for $50 then we only need to move one or two for a good night :tumble:

And if you sell none it's obviously because you got a slacker for a merch bitch.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-29-2008 at 09:58 PM

Quote:

see and I think that $20 for a Tshirt is worse than $8 for a 7" but maybe its just me. Theres a lot more cost that can and does go into recording, mastering and pressing a record than designing and printing a Tshirt.

Anyway, I think that matching prices at $12 is totally fine and even $15 is okay, but $20 is high. I remember when The Bosstones opened for Aerosmith and they had to price match and the Bosstones shirts were $35.

The other thing that to me makes it worse is that most of the Bosstones shirts they had are the same ones you could have bought at a show 10 years ago or on Interpunk last week and in either of those situations they would have cost you $12

Oh yeah... and no its not a picture disc. Regular old black vinyl in a pretty thick cardboard sleeve and it came with a full color sticker. Thats it.

defstarsteve - 12-29-2008 at 10:44 PM

I know my prices are low on printing, so bands can sell at a lower price...
but now that I also work in high end corporate printing, I do believe that big bands are even more full of shit...

we did work the last 2 weeks for lil wayne...
they just ordered a 12 color shirt today for his tour...
cost of shirt out the door was around $3 fucking dollars for only 1000 shirts...
yes the marketing company and everyone else has to get a hand in there before they are sold at shows,
but fuck I can't touch that price ever not even for 1 color anymore...

so anyone putting shirts at $20.00 is ripping the crowd fucking off... but what I do know

Mark Lind - 12-30-2008 at 12:32 AM

Yeah... the profit margin on t-shirts is absurd. We've consistently sold ours (all my bands) for $10 up until this year when I had to raise them to $12 (aside from that aforementioned DKM tour). But don't hate the player.... hate the game. Bands like the Bosstones, DKM, Flogging Molly and all bands of that size sell their shirts for absurd amounts of money. Even Street Dogs do it and they aren't a pimple on the ass of those bands from a popularity standpoint. I personally wouldn't pay $20 for a shirt* but people do. Bands can get away with it.

I hope I'm not coming off as defending the idea of dragging people over the coals for their money. But it is a fact of life.

*I've even become more high maintenance lately. I'll only buy a shirt if it is made of a certain fabric that I can recognize by touching it. American Apparel makes them. Maybe you know what they are, defstarsteve.

defstarsteve - 12-30-2008 at 01:01 AM

oh yeah I get what you are saying, but there is the punk level and the mainstream level
and we def-star try to make them as cheap as possible, so the band can make a little money since make money on cd sales is joke.

at the day job, today alone I worked on lil wayne, pepsi and harry potter
all of which will be maked up beyond what any punk even DKM or Bosstones could even being to try to make.

I can guarentee that lil wayne is selling his $3.00 shirts for $35.00...
how else do you cover your bling

the bigger the band the more hands ni the pocket and the less in control the bands are.
DKM probably get royalties in advance and the merch is coverd by a 3rd party that determines the pricing...
the whole thing at that level is just insane...

as for "fashion" tees
some bands ask for them and they pay almost 3-5 dollars more a piece in cost...
so they have to charge more for those...

but I have talked to bands about profit margins in the past...
they come and ask me for the fancy track jackets that end up costing almost 20.00 a piece
and they can only afford to make 25 or so
and very few people have 40-50 at a show for a jacket
so it takes them longer to sell them...
for the same money they could have made 100 shirts 4 different designs sold them for 10.00 a piece
and sold out in a few shows

costs both at 500.00
sales both at 1000.00
and if they sold the shirts for 12 they would have made another 200.00
but which is easier to sell...

anyhow rant over
I hate merch and I have to go print for batman...

CR83 - 12-30-2008 at 09:33 AM

This has been an awesome thread to read from a fan point of view. All great perspectives. Thanks Guys.

For me, I will not pay $20 for a t-shirt. I max out at $15 probably. I for sure don't carry much loot with me to a show and fuck those assholes for charging $30+ a shirt and fuck the fans for giving in to that price.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-30-2008 at 10:37 AM

I understand somewhat when its a huge arena band becuae like Mark said, they are probably getting paid out in advance and the merch is handled by someone else. If that is how DKM work then I admire them for having $12 shirts. Actually I admire then having $12 shirts either way because they are big enough that they could charge more and lets be honest, 1/2 the people that buy a DKM shirt at a show are shitfaced and would spend $50 on it.

I know that the big bands have to pay the arena a percentage, they have to pay the income tax and a lot of other things, but any band on a 'punk' level doesnt deal with that stuff. There is NO way I would pay $20 for a Street Dogs shirt and I would be apalled if I was at a show and they were selling them for that much.

Okay... now all that being said, I DID buy a Bosstones shirt. I got one of the Hometown Throwdown shirts and I did pay $20 for it. If I really want a shirt I will pay $20, but thats only because I go to shows/concerts very infrequently. If I went often then I couldnt afoard that. Plus I didnt pay to get in the show so that helped too.

Lastly, I thought it was VERY cool that Kevin the trumpet player for the Bosstones bought a Slapshot shirt. He didnt say who he was or ask for anything free or even mention to anyone in the band that he wanted one. He just came to the merch table and bought it. I respect that a lot!

ShawnRefuse - 12-30-2008 at 12:57 PM

This is a fun thread.

I did pay $30 for a work shirt with embroidery one side and screen on the back. Or should I say, my girlfriend bought it for me. It is pretty sweet, but It's a button up, and high quality. It'd cost that much at the Garment District out here anyway.

I do justify spending more when it's more than a t-shirt.

Mark Lind - 12-30-2008 at 03:14 PM

Ok. Here's another question for everyone..... what do you look for in a shirt? If you are going to see a band you like for the first time will you just buy one because it's a band you like or does it need to look a certain way etc?

(taking notes)

Mark Lind - 12-30-2008 at 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
I understand somewhat when its a huge arena band becuae like Mark said, they are probably getting paid out in advance and the merch is handled by someone else. If that is how DKM work then I admire them for having $12 shirts. Actually I admire then having $12 shirts either way because they are big enough that they could charge more and lets be honest, 1/2 the people that buy a DKM shirt at a show are shitfaced and would spend $50 on it.

The thing with the $12 shirts was in 1999 so I have no idea what they charge now. But DKM are the yard stick by which I measure integrity in this business so I'm sure their prices are set at what they have to be to make ends meet.

Furly - 12-30-2008 at 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Ok. Here's another question for everyone..... what do you look for in a shirt? If you are going to see a band you like for the first time will you just buy one because it's a band you like or does it need to look a certain way etc?

(taking notes)

Yeah, it has to look a certain way. If I don't see any with a design I like, I won't buy. I also want the name of the band on the front.

I also like shirts made for certain songs, but only if I already own the CD and actually like the song.

and I think the dropkick shirts were $20 last time I saw them. I only own one shirt from them and probably paid $10 for it 100 years ago. I also have a windbreaker that I think I only paid $20-25 for. I'm super cheep, always have been.
I've only worn the windbreaker once or twice, could probably get good money for it, but wouldn't sell it.

Discipline - 12-30-2008 at 03:48 PM

Quote:

For me, I have to like the design on the shirt. There are bands I like that I don't own merch from because they didn't have anything I liked. I like the bands name on the front, and a cool design. I also prefer shirts with a back print of some kind, even if it's just the band's label's name.

ShawnRefuse - 12-30-2008 at 04:24 PM

I am a front print/good design with legible band name kinda guy. I usually have an over shirt or hoodie, so the back is lost on me.

I prefer the 1-2 color designs. If the design is good, it will stand on it's own.

MarkV - 12-31-2008 at 12:24 AM

Just an FYI that Honus touched on most venues take a percentage. Anything over 500 or 600 capacity, you're getting hit with at least 10%. I'm guessing HOB takes 25-30 percent. I did some dates on the NFG/GC arena tour in 03; venues were taking 40%. That was 5+ years ago. I don't think the Mideast as a practice takes a percentage, but they have in the past. The Street Dogs are almost definitely paying percentages to venues, even on their headlining dates. Most bands on Warped tour are getting hit for at least 10%.

Furly - 12-31-2008 at 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
Just an FYI that Honus touched on most venues take a percentage. Anything over 500 or 600 capacity, you're getting hit with at least 10%. I'm guessing HOB takes 25-30 percent. I did some dates on the NFG/GC arena tour in 03; venues were taking 40%. That was 5+ years ago. I don't think the Mideast as a practice takes a percentage, but they have in the past. The Street Dogs are almost definitely paying percentages to venues, even on their headlining dates. Most bands on Warped tour are getting hit for at least 10%.

I think that sucks. taking almost half the profit the band should get is pretty fucking shitty.

MarkV - 12-31-2008 at 03:57 AM

It is. And that's why bands raise their prices.

Mark Lind - 12-31-2008 at 02:40 PM

What Mark is saying is true but it doesn't mean people aren't being gouged at times. $12 but 20% is $14.40, not $20.

Discipline - 12-31-2008 at 02:46 PM

I find a lot of the older bands charge more for their shirts. Dayglo's prices have hit $20 for a shirt the last few times I saw them. DOA is usually pretty expensive too. I have no problem paying up to $15 for a shirt, as long as it's good quality. Anything above that I think is too pricey. I have to LOVE a shirt to pay $20 for it.

MarkV - 12-31-2008 at 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
What Mark is saying is true but it doesn't mean people aren't being gouged at times. $12 but 20% is $14.40, not $20.

They are, but as long as people are willing to pay it, it's not going to stop, as you said.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-31-2008 at 03:06 PM

people are stupid... I just hate to see a band that just takes advantage of stupidity. I mean I know that bands are trying to make some money, even if its just so they can reinvest it into their music, but If someone will buy a $20 shirt thats fine, but they would have bought a $10 shirt and been psyched or they would have bought 2 $10 shirts and been psyched.

Mark Lind - 12-31-2008 at 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
What Mark is saying is true but it doesn't mean people aren't being gouged at times. $12 but 20% is $14.40, not $20.

They are, but as long as people are willing to pay it, it's not going to stop, as you said.

Totally.

MarkV - 12-31-2008 at 06:54 PM

And, how much are t shirts at stores? Target, Hot Topic, the Gap, Pac Sun, etc? They all have to be at least 15 and up at this point, right?

XHonusWagnerX - 1-1-2009 at 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
And, how much are t shirts at stores? Target, Hot Topic, the Gap, Pac Sun, etc? They all have to be at least 15 and up at this point, right?

not at Target or Old Navy I know that. You can sometimes get them 3 for $15. Of course the shirts at Old Navy are LAME, but they are cheap.

Mark Lind - 1-1-2009 at 01:07 PM

Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

XHonusWagnerX - 1-1-2009 at 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

thats overpriced to me too, but I have a bigger issue when the price is high & you're buying it right from the band. I mean if Def-Steve can print and sell shirts to bands for literally $4-$5 a piece (with only a 20 shirt minimum) than a band should be happy with double or trippling the cost.

defstarsteve - 1-1-2009 at 09:57 PM

yeah but a store has to get paid as well

MarkV - 1-1-2009 at 09:58 PM

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Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
And, how much are t shirts at stores? Target, Hot Topic, the Gap, Pac Sun, etc? They all have to be at least 15 and up at this point, right?

not at Target or Old Navy I know that. You can sometimes get them 3 for $15. Of course the shirts at Old Navy are LAME, but they are cheap.

Shirts with printing?

MarkV - 1-1-2009 at 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

Let's say 5 bucks tripled, to 15. Then the venue takes 3, so it's now 12.
You've got to account for gas prices (which I realize are low right now) and the actual overhead it costs a young band with 6 people in a van to do a 6 week US tour is.

XHonusWagnerX - 1-1-2009 at 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

a touring band I understand a little more also, but I guess I just subscribe to a different theory on this than everyone else. When I had a band we always sold stuff as cheap as possible because if we can sell 10 shirts for 10 and make $100 it was way better than selling 5 shirts for $20 and making the same $100 because it ment more people had the stuff and were possibly spreading the word.

XHonusWagnerX - 1-1-2009 at 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
And, how much are t shirts at stores? Target, Hot Topic, the Gap, Pac Sun, etc? They all have to be at least 15 and up at this point, right?

not at Target or Old Navy I know that. You can sometimes get them 3 for $15. Of course the shirts at Old Navy are LAME, but they are cheap.

Shirts with printing?

yeah the shirts at Old Navy are really cheap and they are printed with random things like "real to real tape deck" or an ad for a fake chinese resturaunt.

MarkV - 1-1-2009 at 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Lind
Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

You can also be lenient. You say the shirt's 15, but for everyone couple you sell at 15, you're selling one or two to kids who only have 10, or you're selling the shirt and CD together for 20, or you're giving shit away (which most bands don't seem to realize ads up).

XHonusWagnerX - 1-2-2009 at 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
You can also be lenient. You say the shirt's 15, but for everyone couple you sell at 15, you're selling one or two to kids who only have 10, or you're selling the shirt and CD together for 20, or you're giving shit away (which most bands don't seem to realize ads up).

That seems like a totally reasonable thing to do. Also, we've gotten to the number $15. I dont have a huge issue with $15 for a shirt its the $20+ shirts that I think are insane.

Hoodies too. Def-Star does hoodies for about $11 a piece. If you can get them made for that than why do so many bands sell hoodies for $35+?

I've never been in an 'underground DIY' band, but the bands I was in always had that mentality so its just what makes the most sense to me.

MarkV - 1-2-2009 at 12:12 PM

"Underground DIY bands" = hobby/vacation bands. Look at bands with the lowest prices: they're either dudes having fun off their time at work, OR rich kids just enjoying themselves.

MarkV - 1-2-2009 at 12:20 PM

Honus- The upcharge is almost the same!
Hoodie cost: 11
sell: 35
Shirt: 5
sell 15

XHonusWagnerX - 1-2-2009 at 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
Honus- The upcharge is almost the same!
Hoodie cost: 11
sell: 35
Shirt: 5
sell 15

well I'm embarased to say that I didnt really think of it that way. I guess its just the $35 price point that I feel is to high, but you are right, its the same thing.

XHonusWagnerX - 1-2-2009 at 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
"Underground DIY bands" = hobby/vacation bands. Look at bands with the lowest prices: they're either dudes having fun off their time at work, OR rich kids just enjoying themselves.

This I dont agree with. In Providence, RI and Onleyville, RI there is a huge scene of bands that doing things almost totally DIY. Bands that have been around for years like DROPDEAD. Yes, they dont play as often as they used to, but they are all in other bands in addition to Dropdead that are playing and putting out material. I dont think I have ever seen a Dropdead shirt priced higher than $8. Theres another band called THE WHITE MICE and they subscribe to the same theories and sell shirts for nore more than $10. Self released CDs for $6-$8 and CDs & LPs out on lables for $10-$12. Other bands I would include are BATTLE SNAKE, SUFFERING BASTARD, LOLITA BLACK, I DESTROYER, WORK/DEATH, LIGHTNING BOLT and many more and thats just from 1 section of my local scene.

Mark Lind - 1-2-2009 at 01:57 PM

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Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX

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Originally posted by Mark Lind
Newbury Comics charges like $18.99 for their band shirts now and they are all ill fitting.

I gotta go ahead and disagree with you there. The reality is that most bands today are greedy and want $$. The quality of music is down.... the cost of the poor quality music is up. I know so many bands personally that are a) full of shit b) only in it for the money c) selling a gimmick of being honest and not in it for the money d) doing well with making people believe this crap.

Bands move too quick today to take themselves seriously. I've seen small time bands try traveling with a tour manager, a sound man, roadies, merch girl. Take it easy, guys. You're not the Rolling Stones. Some bands are paying these people guaranteed salaries when there's no guarantee they are even gonna have people show up to see them play. Here's a novel idea.... carry your own amp, tune your own guitar, go behind your own merch table and cut the prices and give us a break. I did it. So can they.

And while I'm at it.... can someone please make a decent record for me to enjoy in 2009? I still like punk music but no one is offering anything decent. In the meantime I will listen to more Elton John and Billy Joel.