the dark knight

clevohardcore - 1-4-2009 at 01:13 AM

those who witnessed this movie should have reiterated its awesomeness back when. Seriously, I got it on dvd and wow. This is the first BATMAN movie I ever saw.

Voodoobillyman - 1-4-2009 at 01:24 AM

yup, it's really good, even with the junky offing himself hype initially surrounding it.

upyerbum - 1-4-2009 at 01:48 AM

I liked the Two-Face angle. Best Batman yet. Can't wait for the Wolverine movie.

clevohardcore - 1-4-2009 at 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
yup, it's really good, even with the junky offing himself hype initially surrounding it.

^^^^^^^^^ People were not kidding when they said he did a awesome job. Seriously, he made that character real. It was weird.

Furly - 1-4-2009 at 02:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
yup, it's really good, even with the junky offing himself hype initially surrounding it.

^^^^^^^^^ People were not kidding when they said he did a awesome job. Seriously, he made that character real. It was weird.

it's true. I wanted to hate him soooooo bad.

DaveMoral - 1-4-2009 at 02:30 AM

Yep, movie's awesome. Saw it twice in the theater, need to watch the DVD I was given at Xmas.

Six66Mike - 1-4-2009 at 02:33 AM

Aren't they re-releasing this in cinema's?

tireironsaint - 1-4-2009 at 02:38 AM

I think it's probably the best comic based movie so far. I need to pick it up sometime....although I think I ended up seeing it four times in the theater. It's crazy for me to see a movie more than once in the theater, three times is extremely rare for me, and I can't remember the last movie I saw four times.

I saw the preview for Wolverine last week when I saw The Spirit and I'm really looking forward to it. I don't think it's gonna come anywhere near Dark Knight, but it still looks pretty good. The Spirit was a let down, by the way. Some cool shots and nice lookin' broads, but definitely not up to the Sin City standards the studio hype played it up to be. Very odd sense of humor to it and I could never quite immerse myself in the story. There were some cool parts to the story itself and I have to admit that seeing Sam Jackson and Scarlett Johannsen in nazi uniforms was awesome, but over all a definite let down. I would suggest waiting for the DVD for anybody that hasn't seen it yet.

DaveMoral - 1-4-2009 at 02:46 AM

Damn, I wanted to see that one too. Maybe it would be helpful to read the old Will Eisner's The Spirit comics rather than get the first intro to the whole world via Frank Miller... who, quite frankly, has kind of gone off his rocker in the last few years.

Murk - 1-4-2009 at 02:47 AM

i just watched this again yesterday.

just fuckin' great.

Murk - 1-4-2009 at 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
This is the first BATMAN movie I ever saw.

you need to see Batman Begins.

tireironsaint - 1-4-2009 at 02:54 AM

Yeah, I think the sense of humor would probably be a lot more accessible for people more familiar with the comic. I have checked The Spirit comic out a little in the past, but not nearly enough to be prepared for this movie. It's actually a bit awkward and the humor kind of flies right past you until you get a good way into the movie and understand the angle. It's MUCH more light hearted than Sin City, although I can see a thin thread of connection between the two aside from the visuals.

Dave - 1-4-2009 at 03:28 PM

there should be no connection between sin city and the spirit..........

i for one could not wrap my head around why Frank miller was involved with the spirit movie anyways.......only thing i can come up with is just a name to sell the product.....

and the spirit is suppose to be lighthearted..

there now that, that's off my chest......

I'm still going to go see it, expecting the worst....... :lol:

BDx13 - 1-4-2009 at 04:30 PM

we watched the dark night last night as well.
i had seen batman and batman returns back in the day and thought they were gay.
were there any others between those and dark night?
anyway, yeah, dark night was good.
good ol' hd on demand.

sin city... one of the very few movies i didn't watch in it's entirety.
could NOT get into it.

DaveMoral - 1-4-2009 at 04:45 PM

If you thought Batman and Batman Returns were gay, just be thankful you never saw Batman Forever or especially not Batman & Robin. The last 2 were definitely gay...

Siczine.com - 1-4-2009 at 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireironsaint
I think it's probably the best comic based movie so far.

Definitely.

Though I have read a good deal of Batman, is how Harvey Dent turned into Two Face like that in any comic book or did Nolan come up with that?

Dave - 1-4-2009 at 06:42 PM

BD watch Batman Begins, wicked ........

Voodoobillyman - 1-4-2009 at 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireironsaint
I think it's probably the best comic based movie so far.

I have to dispute this statement, Hellboy is by far the best comic adapted flick to hit the screens in my humble opinion. Dark Knight was good, but not THAT good. And the junky was good, but not THAT good. There are plenty of others who could have acted circles around his version of ol' laughs.

Voodoobillyman - 1-4-2009 at 08:40 PM

I'm sorry , I'm still real pissed about all the poor him bullshit that came from this, if yer gonna cry for him, then why not cry for every junky that checks themselves out. I digress though, it's about the movie, not the fuckstick.

Voodoobillyman - 1-4-2009 at 08:41 PM

Hellbay WAS way better too, I stand by that like it's a used car I'm trying to sell to your asses :baddevil:

Discipline - 1-4-2009 at 09:00 PM

I never read the Hellboy comics so I had no background on it when I saw the movie, which I thought was pretty lame.

I loved the Dark Knight, particularly Heath Ledger as the Joker. I thought he was going to suck when they announced him for the role, but he blew me away. As for Dark Knight, it's definitely my favorite comic adaptation, followed by V For Vendetta.

MarkV - 1-4-2009 at 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BD
we watched the dark night last night as well.
i had seen batman and batman returns back in the day and thought they were gay.
were there any others between those and dark night?
anyway, yeah, dark night was good.
good ol' hd on demand.

sin city... one of the very few movies i didn't watch in it's entirety.
could NOT get into it.

Batman Begins which came out in 05 was the first in this new series of films. Definitely worth checking out.
I liked Hellboy but never read any of the comics. I've heard from fans of the book that it was pretty divergent from them but I have no idea. I definitely preferred XMen 1 and 2 to Hellboy.
Harvey Dent's origin was changed in this; he's scarred with acid in a courtroom in the comics.

Voodoo- He wasn't a "junky who offed himself." It's been proven at this point that it was an accidental mixture of two prescription drugs: I believe something for the flu and some sort of sleep medication that basically killed him when he mixed and matched. There's quite a few medications available over the counter and with prescriptions that this can happen with.

tireironsaint - 1-4-2009 at 10:40 PM

Voodoo, I absolutely love Hellboy and to a slightly lesser extent, Hellboy II. However, those movies didn't come close to blowing me away in the same way that Dark Knight did. I thought Batman Begins was fucking amazing but had no idea that it was leading up to something as impressive as the Dark Knight. And like Discipline, I thought Ledger was a poor choice for the Joker, but I honestly cannot think of one actor who could have pulled that off better. I don't know all or really even very many of the facts about his death so I don't quite feel qualified to pass judgement on it. I do feel very sorry for his kid, but aside from that I refuse to indulge in the lamentations of the masses over a man I never knew.

Siczine.com - 1-5-2009 at 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Harvey Dent's origin was changed in this; he's scarred with acid in a courtroom in the comics.

By one of Falcone's men in Year One, but were there any other different origin stories for him, kind of like how Joker has a couple?

MarkV - 1-5-2009 at 01:00 AM

I'm pretty sure it's always been someone tossing acid on him in court. I think the person doing it has changed, but I think it's been pretty static.

I don't even really consider Batman Begins and Dark Knight as "comic book" movies. I said that when BB came out and I feel that way even more strongly about DK. I thought IronMan was an EXCELLENT comic book movie. Esp in DK the "super hero element" is almost irrelevant. Batman could have just been some great cop played by Deniro who's hunted by a psychopath.

TIS- I definitely feel bad for his child. And, I lament the loss of a great actor, so young. My point was referring to him as a "junky who offed himself" is very ill informed or ignorant. It wasn't a John Belushi snorting and shooting everything under the sun scenario.

tireironsaint - 1-5-2009 at 01:23 AM

I agree about the newest Batman movies being very un-comic like. I mean, obviously we're dealing with a character and basic story ideas which come from comic books, so in that sense they are definitely comic based movies, but with Batman Begins and then (a hundred times moreso) Dark Knight, they are very realistic in the sense that nothing in them is beyond the scope of actual technology or nature. There are no superpowers for either the hero or villains, there's really nothing in these movies to leave these stories in the realm of fantasy and that's exactly why they are so strong.

I wasn't arguing your point on the Junkie business, Mark. Like most people, I heard the original news about his death and figured it was either a stupid overdose thing, an intentional suicide, or some terrible accident. As I'm not the kind of person who feels the need to follow up every story about a celebrity, I never researched it further down the road and never heard what the final decision was on how he actually died. I also agree that it's sad that he died right after finishing a role that showed he had a huge amount more talent than any of the fluff roles he was known for before ever showed. I just don't get into that whole "the world has suffered a great loss" thing that happens anytime a celebrity died. I don't give an ounce more credence to someone just because their job is to be on stage or screen or whatever.

MarkV - 1-5-2009 at 01:32 AM

I agree. I wasn't saying you were arguing it. I was referring to the original post by Voodoo. I do think it's sad when anyone with a lot of potential in any walk of life dies young needlessly. And, he was a pretty well respected actor before this, but never in this dark a role obviously. Wasn't he nominated for an oscar for Broke Back Mountain?

Jason the Magnificent - 1-5-2009 at 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman

Quote:

Originally posted by tireironsaint
I think it's probably the best comic based movie so far.

You seriously have some type of man crush or something on Ledger, seems you can't wait to interject this when these threads come up. and didn't he die from pills anyway?

Voodoobillyman - 1-5-2009 at 07:22 AM

I said my piece, it's my opinion and I will leave it that. No man crush to speak of though unless you speak of Saint Tom Brady :saint:

BDx13 - 1-5-2009 at 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave
BD watch Batman Begins, wicked ........

added to the netflix cue and topped!

DaveMoral - 1-5-2009 at 04:51 PM

Batman Begins is pretty much Batman: Year One and the Man Who Falls smushed together with Ra's al-Ghul and the League of Shadows thrown in.

The Dark Knight is pretty much Batman: The Long Halloween whittled down to an appearance by the Scarecrow and a little bit of Harvey Two-Face and mostly the Joker. Still, pretty much the same story.

I expect the next one to be a Dark Victory(by the same guys who did TLH) adaptation.

BDx13 - 1-5-2009 at 04:55 PM

see, i don't follow the comic at all, so as long as the movies jive logistically with one another, i'm down.

DaveMoral - 1-5-2009 at 09:38 PM

Those particular comics are really good BD. Better yet, you don't have to get into decades of comic stories to know why something is the way it is. You read Year One you get the origin, The Long Halloween is a couple years later, and Dark Victory picks up where TLH left off.

Discipline - 1-5-2009 at 09:48 PM

The Dark Knight Returns is still my favorite comic of all time.

Siczine.com - 1-5-2009 at 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Discipline
The Dark Knight Returns is still my favorite comic of all time.

Same here. I would have to say Year One is my second favorite.

MarkV - 1-6-2009 at 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
I said my piece, it's my opinion and I will leave it that.

Then your opinion is based on inaccurate info.

What's the gist of Dark Victory?

Dave - 1-6-2009 at 09:24 AM

year one was wicked, and the killing joke and the cult.

Discipline - 1-6-2009 at 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Siczine.com

Quote:

Originally posted by Discipline
The Dark Knight Returns is still my favorite comic of all time.

Same here. I would have to say Year One is my second favorite.

When did Year One come out? I seem to remember something with a similar title from back when I used to buy comics, but that was many years ago.

Dave - 1-6-2009 at 01:00 PM

late 80's it came out.

Discipline - 1-6-2009 at 01:36 PM

Okay, I used to have those.

Dave - 1-6-2009 at 01:47 PM

DaveMoral - 1-6-2009 at 03:09 PM

Never read the Cult. I'll have to check it out.

The gist of Dark Victory is that it comes right on the coattails of The Long Halloween and is indeed a sequel and thus TLH is necessary reading. It revolves mostly around Two-Face, and the beginnings of Robin's career with Batman are there too. Though, as I recall(it's been a little while since I read it), it takes quite a while for Dick Grayson to actually put on a Robin costume and join Batman in anything. Mostly it's about him coping with his parents' murder and getting aquainted with Bruce Wayne and finding out he's Batman along with the mystery involving Two-Face, Joker, etc.

MarkV - 1-6-2009 at 03:41 PM

Gotcha. Bale and Nolan have both said in the past there's almost no chance they'd ever incorporate Robin into their franchise.

DaveMoral - 1-6-2009 at 05:58 PM

It'd be an interesting way to end the series, with Bruce picking up Dick with it understood that he intends on helping Dick deal with his tragedy the only way he knows how. Which would, of course, result in Dick also becoming a potentially nutty costumed vigilante who is able to take out all his angst on thugs in the most brutal of fashions.

Haha, that's what Frank Miller is doing in All-Star Batman and Robin... of course, he takes it so far that Batman actually beats on Dick/Robin and psychologically tortures him. Which leads into Dick's appearance in The Dark Knight Strikes Again and why he hates Bruce so much. Anyways. A bit more toned down version of that is how I could see it working out in the Nolanverse.

The whole refusal to introduce Robin is rooted in the belief that Robin's got to be irredeemably campy, and I think the Batman tales of the last 20 years have pretty much put that to rest. Even before that with Jason Todd as Robin you could say it was put to rest, but that rediculous costume was still campy. When they changed it to the costume that inspired the Robin suit in Batman Forever Robin actually fit with a darker Batman and Gotham.

MarkV - 1-7-2009 at 08:09 AM

I don't want to see it, at all. Because, you KNOW what will happen, even if they just introduce Dick? We'll get a 4th without Nolan and probably without Bail, and the horrible process will start, again.
Christ, Dick Grayson will be the equivalent of the fucking Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. Dark Knight IS the Empire Strikes Back of this era. Nolan needs to be VERY careful how he handles this third one. Being that he seems to actually have artistic integrity, I'm hoping for the best here. I'd be into 2 Face coming back (they faked his death, they just put him in Arkham). I could see a well done Penguin or as my buddy suggested, a Riddler, more in the vein of Jigsaw from Saw... someone sort of holding the city hostage through using people to commit heinous crimes through riddles. If this fucking thing has a broad in a tight leather suit purrrrring or an acrobat in shorts.... I'm going to be really bummed out. Then again, I was bummed on Ledger as the choice (I preferred the idea of Crispin Glover) and I was pleasantly surprised.

Dave - 1-7-2009 at 08:27 AM

i think jonny depp would make a good riddler

DeathByForce - 1-7-2009 at 08:28 AM

This movie is SO overrated.

It didn't delve much into Batman at ALL. It was supposed to be a Batman movie, right? Not a Joker movie.
I would've loved to see more involvement with the psychology between joker and batman. It was a movie of introductions and explosions. They just ended up getting lazy and not explaining anything.

The ending was the only good part.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-7-2009 at 10:25 AM

no

DaveMoral - 1-7-2009 at 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV
I don't want to see it, at all. Because, you KNOW what will happen, even if they just introduce Dick? We'll get a 4th without Nolan and probably without Bail, and the horrible process will start, again.
Christ, Dick Grayson will be the equivalent of the fucking Ewoks in Return of the Jedi. Dark Knight IS the Empire Strikes Back of this era. Nolan needs to be VERY careful how he handles this third one. Being that he seems to actually have artistic integrity, I'm hoping for the best here. I'd be into 2 Face coming back (they faked his death, they just put him in Arkham). I could see a well done Penguin or as my buddy suggested, a Riddler, more in the vein of Jigsaw from Saw... someone sort of holding the city hostage through using people to commit heinous crimes through riddles. If this fucking thing has a broad in a tight leather suit purrrrring or an acrobat in shorts.... I'm going to be really bummed out. Then again, I was bummed on Ledger as the choice (I preferred the idea of Crispin Glover) and I was pleasantly surprised.

Like I said before, Robin doesn't have to be the Robin of the 40s-late 80s. His look could be based on the Robin from the 90s to the look he's got now. Shit, he's mostly covered in black these days.

No one could possibly work Robin in this this Batman story without it being really dark, there's no possible way to go from Batman Begins and the Dark Knight and turn it into a campy romp akin to Batman Forever or Batman & Robin. Especially if WB is smart and doesn't hand the whole project over to some loopy gay dude with a fetish for rubber nipples.

Part of the problem with the old franchise was that it was Tim Burton's baby from the get-go. Batman was great, Batman Returns was cool if not a little weirder than anyone would've preferred... but they were also zany in that Tim Burton way. They had the seeds for Schumacher's camp all along. And Tim Burton was the producer on Schumacher's trainwrecks(actually, while Batman Forever sucks it's not nearly as bad as Batman & Robin).

Nolan's constructed a world where that kind of Robin can't exist, but there's no reason why some form of Robin can't exist. The character has gone through plenty of reinvention that it could work out.

I like the character, I also like the idea of the character and what his purpose evolved into with the introduction of Tim Drake as Robin III. The whole thing was that Batman needs a Robin, to keep him grounded. Without someone there to ground him he just gets sucked deeper and deeper into his dark persona until he starts becoming the monsters he fights. That would actually be worthwhile psychological ground to cover in Nolan's Gotham... it's also the precisely the direction I see Batman heading. Bruce becomes dangerously absorbed in the task of being Batman that he ceases to distinguish between Bruce Wayne and Batman.

Dave - 1-7-2009 at 12:59 PM

just skip robin and goto nightwing.......

Discipline - 1-7-2009 at 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveMoral
Like I said before, Robin doesn't have to be the Robin of the 40s-late 80s. His look could be based on the Robin from the 90s to the look he's got now. Shit, he's mostly covered in black these days.

Nolan's constructed a world where that kind of Robin can't exist, but there's no reason why some form of Robin can't exist. The character has gone through plenty of reinvention that it could work out.

I like the character, I also like the idea of the character and what his purpose evolved into with the introduction of Tim Drake as Robin III. The whole thing was that Batman needs a Robin, to keep him grounded. Without someone there to ground him he just gets sucked deeper and deeper into his dark persona until he starts becoming the monsters he fights. That would actually be worthwhile psychological ground to cover in Nolan's Gotham... it's also the precisely the direction I see Batman heading. Bruce becomes dangerously absorbed in the task of being Batman that he ceases to distinguish between Bruce Wayne and Batman.

If they introduced Robin in this fashion I would be cool with it. If they were going to bring in the character, I think have him come in as simply Dick Grayson midway through the third movie, and bring out the Robin character in a fourth movie. As long as they can keep them as good as the first two, I hope they make another few movies.

barc0debaby - 1-7-2009 at 02:53 PM

The Dark Knight is ovverated. Italian batman would kick his ass any day, and score with all the ladies.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3emn6_bathman-dal-pianeta-...

BDx13 - 1-7-2009 at 03:25 PM

italian batman has a DOPE soundtrack.

Voodoobillyman - 1-7-2009 at 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
I said my piece, it's my opinion and I will leave it that.

Then your opinion is based on inaccurate info.

What's the gist of Dark Victory?

oooooookay, thank you for being the authority on this subject and setting me straight. Now, what are you going to do to fix the economy all seeing and knowing OZ?

MarkV - 1-7-2009 at 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DeathByForce
This movie is SO overrated.

It didn't delve much into Batman at ALL. It was supposed to be a Batman movie, right? Not a Joker movie.
I would've loved to see more involvement with the psychology between joker and batman. It was a movie of introductions and explosions. They just ended up getting lazy and not explaining anything.

The ending was the only good part.

It's not really a Batman movie. The whole thing is Batman "not being the hero Gotham needs." It's really more about Dent. That's actually why I think the movie was so good and so powerful. It's more Dent, the Joker, Wayne THEN Batman. I thought most everything was explained well enough.
And I'd guess based on the last line the Joker says in the movie, that there were obvious intentions of exploring their relationship further in the third movie.

Dave- Put like that, I'm not as opposed. I'm still scared of ewoks though.

DaveMoral - 1-7-2009 at 04:28 PM

Oh c'mon Mark. Would you rather have Ewoks or Gungans?

Seriously though, have you guys read Batman Year Three? At that point Jason Todd/Robin II is dead. Bruce is totally busted up about that still... plus Joker shooting and paralyzing Barbara "Batgirl" Gordon. Dick Grayson is back as Nightwing... and they are letting Tony Zucco... the dude responsible for the deaths of Dick's parents out of jail.

Batman is brutalizing EVERYONE, viciously to get at Zucco and the mob. Dick and Alfred are worried about him etc. Considering the era... when they would still use the light blues to color Batman's cape and cowl... this one is DARK. I mean, they switched to a really really dark blue and shadowed everything pretty heavily. Nightwing's outfit is rather ludicrous... I mean, think a blue and baby blue version of the old Iron First costume... but man is Batman badass and what you could see Bale's Batman being like if he was just a tad bit further over the edge.

Year Three is almost immediately followed up by A Lonely Place of Dying that features not only Two-Face as the main antagonist... but Tim Drake actually figuring out with his uncanny detective skills who Batman is... and indeed, who all those associated with him are. It is Tim that convinces Bruce that he needs Robin to keep him grounded. Not long after that the classic Robin get-up is discarded with in favor of a Robin with a full body suit of red and dark green with a black cape and ninja boots.

This is the era that I was really getting into Batman as a comic book reader, rather than as a kid who was watching Super Friends and playing with the Super Powers action figures. It wasn't long after the first Batman movie. Plus you had Batman The Animated Series... and I can't help but think of how Robin worked out in that one. Usually managing to fit nicely with the tone rather than add alot of campy nonesense, unless they were going for a particularly goofy episode. It was Robin III that inspired every media portrayal of Robin after 1990. The animated series Robin and even the shitty Chris O'Donnel Robin costume at least found it's origins in Robin III.

MarkV - 1-7-2009 at 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman

Quote:

Originally posted by MarkV

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
I said my piece, it's my opinion and I will leave it that.

Then your opinion is based on inaccurate info.

What's the gist of Dark Victory?

oooooookay, thank you for being the authority on this subject and setting me straight. Now, what are you going to do to fix the economy all seeing and knowing OZ?

Well dude, he wasn't a junkie and died of an accidental overdose. Kind of contradicts your opinion, doesn't it?

DaveMoral - 1-7-2009 at 05:08 PM

Let's just drop, eh?

Been enough hostility over piddly shit on here lately...

Voodoobillyman - 1-7-2009 at 05:17 PM

Not being hostile at all, trying to be funny but comes across wierd on the ol computer. No hard feelings Mark, I still don't buy the "accident" deal. Dosen't matter anyway. he still played a rad joker and it's too bad he won't be able to do it again. I just don't feel bad for him is all. I DO feel bad for the kid, that is always tragic. You never did answer how you were going to fix the economy.

Voodoobillyman - 1-7-2009 at 05:19 PM

Dave, you are talking some seriously good Batman by the by, I am currently reading Cult, but could you breakdown in a list the order of all of these books as you are supposed to read chronoligically? I want to make sure I don't confuse myself as that is very easy to do.

DaveMoral - 1-7-2009 at 06:53 PM

Honestly, I don't know jack about the Cult. Interested though.

So far I've mentioned the requisite Year One, then The Last Halloween, then Dark Victory. All of that is Dick Grayson's day.

In terms of the emergence of Robin III/Tim Drake it's essential to read A Death In The Family first. Joker kills Jason Todd. Then Year Three, which is Dick coming back after being away 2 years and Jason's been dead for a few weeks or months. Right on the heels of that comes A Lonely Place of Dying where Bat's is nuts, the press has no clue that Robin's been killed and Tim Drake is investigating Batman and figures out his secret and everything. Including the identies of Robin and the death of Jason Todd. Meanwhile, Two-Face is going nuts on Gotham trying to kill Batman.

All of that just leads into where they introduce Robin III and his new look. Which isn't even in a major story, it just happens in an issue titled "Debut."

A Lonely Place of Dying would actually be the perfect major influence for the next Batman movie. Especially the way it starts... because if Nolan wanted to use Two-Face again the way he left Two-Face's fate open enough that I'm not convinced he's dead... holy cow, this would work perfectly. Splice in Dark Victory to introduce Dick Grayson rather than have it be Tim Drake. Man, it would work. I don't care what anyone thinks... the introduction of someone for Bruce Wayne to care about so that he has to actually care about Bruce Wayne rather than be completely absorbed into being the Caped Crusader and become lost in his one man war on crime could really really work. Especially with Batman now being officially vilified by Gotham and tagged with the murders that Two-Face did. I see no reason why he wouldn't be going off the deep end in the next film. Alfred's obviously not enough to keep him grounded.

The Dark Knight literally left Bruce Wayne with nothing at the end. He was going to abandon Batman so he could hook up with Rachel... well, she's dead and buried. He's not the hero that Gotham thought he was anymore, if only because his PR is now bad because he decided to take the fall for Harvey to keep hope alive in Gotham's legal system.... which we all know is shot to hell. Harvey blames him for everything, if he were to come back it would definitely be a plot to kill the Bat. Cops after him for his increasingly brutal tactics, then the mob offs the Flying Graysons... and just to modernize it let's say it's not a Barnum and Baily sorta circus but more like Cirque du Soleil. Something that snobs are going to be at. Anyways... read A Lonely Place of Dying and you'll see where I'm coming from. There's also someone in contact with Harv from within good old Arkham Asylum too...

Voodoobillyman - 1-7-2009 at 11:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveMoral
Honestly, I don't know jack about the Cult. Interested though.

So far I've mentioned the requisite Year One, then The Last Halloween, then Dark Victory. All of that is Dick Grayson's day.

In terms of the emergence of Robin III/Tim Drake it's essential to read A Death In The Family first. Joker kills Jason Todd. Then Year Three, which is Dick coming back after being away 2 years and Jason's been dead for a few weeks or months. Right on the heels of that comes A Lonely Place of Dying where Bat's is nuts, the press has no clue that Robin's been killed and Tim Drake is investigating Batman and figures out his secret and everything. Including the identies of Robin and the death of Jason Todd. Meanwhile, Two-Face is going nuts on Gotham trying to kill Batman.

All of that just leads into where they introduce Robin III and his new look. Which isn't even in a major story, it just happens in an issue titled "Debut."

A Lonely Place of Dying would actually be the perfect major influence for the next Batman movie. Especially the way it starts... because if Nolan wanted to use Two-Face again the way he left Two-Face's fate open enough that I'm not convinced he's dead... holy cow, this would work perfectly. Splice in Dark Victory to introduce Dick Grayson rather than have it be Tim Drake. Man, it would work. I don't care what anyone thinks... the introduction of someone for Bruce Wayne to care about so that he has to actually care about Bruce Wayne rather than be completely absorbed into being the Caped Crusader and become lost in his one man war on crime could really really work. Especially with Batman now being officially vilified by Gotham and tagged with the murders that Two-Face did. I see no reason why he wouldn't be going off the deep end in the next film. Alfred's obviously not enough to keep him grounded.

The Dark Knight literally left Bruce Wayne with nothing at the end. He was going to abandon Batman so he could hook up with Rachel... well, she's dead and buried. He's not the hero that Gotham thought he was anymore, if only because his PR is now bad because he decided to take the fall for Harvey to keep hope alive in Gotham's legal system.... which we all know is shot to hell. Harvey blames him for everything, if he were to come back it would definitely be a plot to kill the Bat. Cops after him for his increasingly brutal tactics, then the mob offs the Flying Graysons... and just to modernize it let's say it's not a Barnum and Baily sorta circus but more like Cirque du Soleil. Something that snobs are going to be at. Anyways... read A Lonely Place of Dying and you'll see where I'm coming from. There's also someone in contact with Harv from within good old Arkham Asylum too...

thanks big guy

Dave - 1-7-2009 at 11:42 PM

the cult was a mini series, and the killing joke was a graphic novel, so they really dont follow the order of things i guess.....

DaveMoral - 1-8-2009 at 04:08 AM

Yeah, not really. Though somehow the Killing Joke fits into it all since it's part of the continuity.

That's also one of those things that gets the Bat all dark and scary in the storylines from 88-89.

Discipline - 1-8-2009 at 11:12 AM

Killing Joke was amazing. Joker's sadistic side came out in full force.

Dave - 1-8-2009 at 12:46 PM

that the way the joker is suppose to be.

the hush story line from a few years ago was good too, the loeb/lee run.

Discipline - 1-8-2009 at 02:47 PM

Now I want to go out and buy a shitload of comics.

DaveMoral - 1-8-2009 at 03:00 PM

Fortunately alot of shit is in trade paperback!

Voodoobillyman - 1-8-2009 at 03:49 PM

Hush 1 and 2 are both in TPB, Jim Lee does a Badass Batman!

BDx13 - 1-11-2009 at 11:50 AM

watched batman begins last night
it was definitely good
i might have liked it more than the dark knight
but only because it told more of the batman story
and was more in line with what i remember from the old tv show (wayne manor, the secret elevator, bustin out of the cliff)

are batman begins and the dark knight by the same director?
how many movies did christian bale sign up for?

BDx13 - 1-11-2009 at 11:52 AM

oh..
katie holmes sucked it
maggie gyllenhall, who i normally like, wasn't so great either
looked a little, i dunno...

DaveMoral - 1-11-2009 at 01:51 PM

Same director. Bale is on for 3, though Nolan... the director... apparently hasn't officially signed on for 3 yet.

In alot of ways Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are very different movies.

hardtone - 1-11-2009 at 04:58 PM

BB & TDK are the faithful movie adaptations informed Batman fans have waited for.

Hush
The Dark Knight Returns
The Killing Joke
A Death in the Family
The Long Halloween
Batman: Year One
Are probably some of the best Bat story arcs we have?

I’m I missing anything really worth mentioning?

MarkV - 1-12-2009 at 02:38 PM

BD-
Bale is also signed on to do 3 new Terminator films, which are sequel/prequels. He's playing John Connors as an adult leading the resistance in the future. First one comes out this spring or summer, I believe.

DaveMoral - 1-12-2009 at 11:44 PM

Bale's a busy man.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-13-2009 at 01:14 AM

Nolan has actually said two face is dead in interviews...how could he not be. The whole ending was based on Batman taking the fall for everything so that Dent could save face and thereby keep some remnant of hope in Gotham. If he's alive and running around villaining again the entire point of Bats doing that would be lost...

MarkV - 1-13-2009 at 02:09 AM

No, not if they had locked him up in Arkham and basically faked his death.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-13-2009 at 06:35 AM

oh boy

DaveMoral - 1-13-2009 at 11:40 PM

I don't think they did nearly enough with ol' Harv. I don't care what Nolan says, if someone handed him a script that used Two-Face really well he'd do it. I have no doubt. Besides, while he says in interviews that Harvey is dead the movie left it somewhat vague. Vague enough that he could plausibly come back.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-14-2009 at 12:12 AM

What exactly was vague about him laying there and them having a service in memorium. I'm not saying dude will NOT be in the next movie anything is possible, but I hear this all the time. It really reminds me of all the crackpot Sopranos theories that used to fly around the web.

I have yet to hear one logical thing shown actually in the movie that would lead anyone to believe he is still alive. Hoping that he is in the next movie doesn't count...I'm not trying to be a dick...but what hint is there that he lived. Someone tell me?

DaveMoral - 1-14-2009 at 03:21 AM

There isn't, but we are talking about Batman here dude. Villians appearing to be dead and then showing up later on is a staple. You know how many times Joker has "died" in the comics? Hell, his first appearance he fell down an apparently bottomless pit!

There's just as much reason to believe that Harvey died in TDK as there is to think they faked his death. Considering they faked Gordon's death in the movie...

I'm not going to be pissed if they definitely don't use Two-Face in the next film, but they could and it would be awesome to continue to use him. Harvey Dent is probably the most fascinating of the characters in Batman's Rogues Gallery. This is a guy who was a stand up take no prisoners DA, then he gets horribly scarred and has a psychotic break that results in split personalities and a fascination with the chance of a flip of the coin and the number 2. Honestly, A Lonely Place of Dying has the perfect means for re-introducing Harvey and they manage to keep it secret at least through the first part of the story(one issue). It would also introduce a theme that Harvey didn't have in TDK using 2's and numbers derivative of 2 in his crimes that flexes Batman's detective skills. That's one thing he's not done at all in BB or TDK.

No detective work, he's not just the Dark Knight... he's the Dark Knight Detective. He didn't figure out Ducard was Ra's al-Ghul until Ducard told him so, beat him down and burned down his house. He didn't do anything but use a fancy cell phone spy tech to find the Joker. I'd like to see that side of Batman done, and I'd like to see Two-Face dealt with in his split personality disorder incarnation... and do it in such a way that keeps the audience unaware that it's Harvey Dent that's back. Obviously they're going to want to bring someone else into the story, but I think Harvey would work great.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-14-2009 at 08:11 AM

It'd be better than Jolie as Catwoman or whatever other nonsense they might try next at least...

Honestly the versions of Croc, Riddler or Penguin from that recent Joker graphic novel may be cool in the 'realistic' Batman world.

MarkV - 1-14-2009 at 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason the Magnificent
What exactly was vague about him laying there and them having a service in memorium. I'm not saying dude will NOT be in the next movie anything is possible, but I hear this all the time. It really reminds me of all the crackpot Sopranos theories that used to fly around the web.

I have yet to hear one logical thing shown actually in the movie that would lead anyone to believe he is still alive. Hoping that he is in the next movie doesn't count...I'm not trying to be a dick...but what hint is there that he lived. Someone tell me?

Jason-
Two things:
1- We're talking about a movie where Batman drops one of his enemies 2 or 3 stories just to hurt him so he'll talk. It shows that it's not a lethal fall depending on how you land. That fall at the end off the movie isn't terribly far. It looks like 3, maybe 4 stories. Batman survived it, and his "gear" couldn't do THAT much in regard to a fall (based on the fact his shit is more or less based on real military shit or at least shit they described in the 2 films). He "looks" dead. It wasn't high enough where he'd be squished.

2- We're talking about a movie where one of the main guys on the police dept fakes his own death to confuse the public and the villains. It appears very few people know about it. How hard would it be to take Harv, whom no one knows where he is anyway, and toss him in the looney bin after that and to have a public service for him??

He was unconscious after the fall. They took him to the looney bin, said he was dead, and presto! he's dead! Big service and memorial. Real dude rots away.

What about the ending isn't vague and what about what I wrote is "crackpot?"

MarkV - 1-14-2009 at 08:29 AM

Dave- Him using his "high tech detective gear" to figure out the address of the Joker, on the day of the commissioner's funeral is his detective skills.

But, I'd LOVE to see a Penguin or even a Riddler as we've discussed, with some sort of underlying 2 Face presence.

Jason the Magnificent - 1-14-2009 at 10:55 AM

Dent lives.

DaveMoral - 1-14-2009 at 11:49 PM

Did you check out the Batman Gotham Knight animated feature? That's supposed to be between BB and TDK. Croc's already there. http://batman.wikia.com/wiki/Killer_Croc_(Batman:_Gotham_Knight)

Jason the Magnificent - 1-15-2009 at 06:41 AM

Yeah he looked like some big gelatinous schmoo type thing with fangs in it.

Dave - 1-15-2009 at 08:21 AM

NO they can't put jolie as catwoman.....ever.