damnit, mine bruise easily.Discipline - 10-21-2010 at 05:50 PM
Gee, I wonder why people think they aren't civilized.JawnDiablo - 10-21-2010 at 06:15 PM
weird me and Gavin are both from ABU DHABI or Uppa DabbyJawnDiablo - 10-21-2010 at 06:17 PM
nothing quite like a mindset that is stuck in the stone age...DaveMoral - 10-21-2010 at 07:08 PM
Shameful. The worst part is that the verse in question is debated amongst Muslims, whether or not the word often translated/interpreted as "beat them"
actually means that or if it means one of the 10 or so other meanings the very same word carries in other verses in the Qur'an.
Secondly, this flies in the face of numerous teachings from Muhammad himself regarding the treatment of wives and children. Even those sayings that
seem to agree with the notion of hitting a wife for disciplinary reasons say to use a "miswak" which is a little twig that Arabs used to use for
dental hygiene. Which goes further to say that it should not leave marks, bruises would be severe in this regard, but just a red mark in itself would
be unaccetable. Given that Muhamamd's example never included him hitting any of his wives when they caused trouble(there is one particular incident
where two of his wives schemed against another one). The whole use of the toothbrush twig just makes it seem ridiculous, and other teachings saying
"never hit one of the handmaidens of God" and "the best of you is he who is best to his wife" I don't believe the verse can be interpreted to mean
"beat" in any secure way. BDx13 - 10-21-2010 at 08:48 PM
interesting explanation, dave, thanks.
just out of curiosity, what are some of the other ways that phrase is translated?barc0debaby - 10-22-2010 at 01:54 AM
Quote:
I wonder why people think they aren't civilized.
Just one side of the extreme. Seems like our civility has child services up your ass if you even so much as lift a wooden spoon in anger.
And really how bad of a beating are you giving someone if there are no marks? That is just a love tap.DaveMoral - 10-22-2010 at 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by BD
interesting explanation, dave, thanks.
just out of curiosity, what are some of the other ways that phrase is translated?
It's often used as "to strike out" which means "leave." So one could translate that verse as setting up a process of spousal dispute that involves the
husband first speaking to his wife about how she has upset him, then if the situation continues to stop sharing the same bed, and if it continues
still to leave or seperate. Laleh Bakhtiar's translation of the Qur'an actually uses this, and the logic is because the next step after those three is
to have a person from the husband's family and a person from the wife's family act as mediators in the dispute.DaveMoral - 10-22-2010 at 05:14 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by barc0debaby
Quote:
I wonder why people think they aren't civilized.
Just one side of the extreme. Seems like our civility has child services up your ass if you even so much as lift a wooden spoon in anger.
And really how bad of a beating are you giving someone if there are no marks? That is just a love tap.
Well, that's the other thing, I'm wondering if "beat" is even the most useful of words to translate the word in question. It might mean "to hit" but
as you say, how hard can one be hitting if you are not to leave marks? I wouldn't call that a beating. To me that's like saying a dude got beatdown if
he caught a single punch in the jaw. Getting punched in the face and having a bloody nose is no where near a beatdown. So it could be a totally wrong
or misleading translation of the Arabic word that is being used, and I'm not sure who you would assign blame to in that case. The translators? The
Arabic to English dictionary folks? Muslim translators of the Qur'an that have used "beat" there even if the footnotes point out the "no marks are to
be left" thing? In which case, "beat" doesn't seem appropriate to me at all as the translation.
