Discipline - 5-13-2012 at 01:48 PM
For those on here that hold religious beliefs of any kind, do you understand why others don't believe? This is not meant to be a religious debate.
I'm not looking for anybody to explain or defend their beliefs, nor a platform for others to attack said beliefs. I'm just curious if religious folks
can understand the disbelief of others.
Jason the Magnificent - 5-13-2012 at 03:01 PM
I usually try to avoid the conversation like the plague, but I've always found it amusing, the amount of judgement from all sides on this subject.
Everyone believes their god is the "only" god, yet cast varying degrees of judgement on other religions who also believe the same thing. Yet by the
same token they can all act surprised when someone doesn't believe, has legitimate doubts in something that can never and has never been proven.
Its like you think I'M the strange one....when I'm watching all of YOU fight over an imaginary cookie? That's not meant to be an "imaginary friend"
type slam...but there is no proof either way.
Both sides of my family (married and blood) have some severely religious people and frankly the subject of my "belief" or lack thereof is exhausting.
If I don't believe in something I can't touch I must be "mad at god"...tbh it's not even in my mind enough (when I'm not being badgered about it) to
give it enough energy to be "mad". I've been near the edge and science and math brought me back from the brink, not prayer.
It's like all rationale and common sense get thrown out the window for this topic no matter what arena it comes up in (it even get heated here among a
pretty chill crowd).
So I'm going to go listen to Bolt Thrower and return to this thread when it either butterflies into quinoa talk like the other thread or everyone can
agree to worship what they want and smash "organized" judgmental worship into dust.
JawnDiablo - 5-13-2012 at 05:25 PM
you should have seen the looks i got for wearing a WWLD shirt (what would lemmy do ) into a bakery after church let out last weekend.
no sense of humor.
JawnDiablo - 5-13-2012 at 05:29 PM
i love the argument about evolution from rednecks, and how they aren't the descendents of "monkeys".....hinting about black people etc
me, i like monkeys, apes, baboons and primates, perhaps more so than humans.....
DaveMoral - 5-13-2012 at 07:09 PM
I can understand. I've been there. I can understand even more when you're a kid raised with it, or with relatives that beat your over the had with it,
and at some point you're just kind of pissed that everything they've ever said seems like bullshit.
Of course, what I can't understand is all the bullshit questions that are rooted in a caricature of theology that many, hell most, atheists seem to
use. I can tell when an atheist has about as much clue about a religion's theological stand point and the various philosophical ideas that connect
themselves to it as a random redneck Christian and/or Muslim(yeah, I regard many many Arabs and Muslims with a barely cursory knowledge of Islam as
rednecks too) does.
There are a lot of questions that atheists ask about the nature of God, and problems associated with God, that they imagine haven't somehow been
thought of over the last 6,000+ years(really, the entire spread of human history and religion) and addressed in a way that satisfied the minds that
asked them. "How can God be Good and there be evil" for instance. Plenty of philosophers and mystics have asked and sought to answer that question for
millenia. The only people that can't come up with an answer for that are people who are ignorant of that long list of philosophers or people who
themselves are incapable to deep thinking. Which, unfortunately, are a great number of "believers"(most of whom I wouldn't consider to "believe" in
the classical sense). Some of the most influence philosophers of ancient Greece were devoutly religious, many of them monotheists before the Greeks
dealt much with the ancient Hebrews. Plato and Socrates spring immediately to mind. And they influenced thinkers in the Christian, Muslim and Jewish
traditions.
Aquinas, Maimonides, Avicenna, etc. Many of whom were polymaths and developed not only philosophy but the beginnings of modern scientific thinking.
Alhazen(aka Ibn al-Haytham) basically invented the scientific method and may have postulated an earlier model of the Solar system that place the Sun
as the point of orbit when that wasn't common. All of these men firmly believed in God and were not the "children" that many atheists assume religious
people to be. Albert Einstein believed in God, as well.
I say this not to appeal to authority for my belief, but to combat the combative and insulting attitude that many atheists take towards people of
religious faith. Especially when we aren't being combative, insulting assholes to them in the first place. I don't expect anyone to believe what I
believe, but I expect a modicum of respect and forethought in the way you talk to me or engage in discourse. If you're going to insult me and my
faith, I'm going to tell you to fuck off. I find that around these parts, it's not the religious folk who are actively turning up the heat in any
discussions. Certainly not in the Kirk Cameron thread. It was the insulting and combative attitudes of the non-believers, who it would seem have a
chip on their shoulders, that turned the discussion from being productive to being a tinderbox.
Generally, I keep my stuff to myself. I don't come here to talk about that stuff, and I generally keep quiet even when I am being insulted by general
proclamations from the more vocal atheists here.
Discipline - 5-13-2012 at 08:18 PM
I get that people don't come here to discuss religion, as it usually just turns into pointless arguments. Basically, Dave's answer is what I was
interested in from those that have beliefs. I find it easy to understand not believing in God, I have a hard time understanding why people have
religious beliefs, so it's interesting to hear an opinion from the other side of the aisle.
JawnDiablo - 5-13-2012 at 10:20 PM
I'.m stayin out of all this crap from here on out.
I am just glad I managed to switch that last deal to quinoa
CR83 - 5-13-2012 at 10:42 PM
Where else on this trash pile called the internet can you have a calm conversation about this topic? Nowhere. This board rules all.
DaveMoral - 5-14-2012 at 04:57 PM
The only reason this board can function that way is because we are such a small group. Can you imagine if we had hundreds of regular contributors?
It'd be a fucking madhouse.
The official song of this board ought to be Bulldog Courage's "This Is Our Neighborhood."
BKT - 5-15-2012 at 01:23 PM
I absolutely love that song. Best sample at the start as well.
BKT.