whats your thoughts on the war against terrorism

xsharpx - 10-3-2005 at 02:10 PM

Yeah so I have been hearing alot of people talking about this and I am all for it. My cousin and step brother are both Combat Engineers with the army and stationed over there in Iraq as well as one of my friends is a Helicopter crew chief in the Army attached with a Blackhawk Helicopter crew in Afghanistan. Being a former US Marine infantry and anti terrorism person as well as coming from a long line of soldiers defending our country including my father who is a former Vietnam Vet and former Prisoner of war (tunnel rat w/ the Green Berets and 82nd Airborne) I am in total agreeance with the War against Terrorism in Iraq and Afghanistan...
I understand that many people are against it and saying that we have no place in placing our men, women, daughters and sons in harms way to fight someone elses battles and then I have heard other friends of mine agreeing with it. I was just wondering what everyone else's thoughts on the matter is....
answer these questions with it as well:
1) do you know anyone over there?
2) do you agree or disagree with the war and why?
3) what do you think that we should be doing with it now?
4) are you former military? if so what branch and what did you do?

I guess thats all .... hope to hear some good responses...
Paulie pipes

Discipline - 10-3-2005 at 02:46 PM

1) Thankfully I don't know anybody over there
2) I am against it because it's a bullshit war. It's got nothing to do with terrorism. It's about oil and the US government trying to istall puppet politicians in the Middle East. What happens over there is none of our business. Let them sort out their own shit.
3) I think the military should pull out. Let these countries deal with their own shit.
4) Nope

xsharpx - 10-3-2005 at 02:54 PM

yeah I agree with you to a point but did you agree with the initial reason that we were over there for. Most of these people were too scared to raise their voices against their goverment because they would be murdered or their family would be murdered.... I mean they broadcasted on the Al Jazera (sp?) that stuff all the time.... I agree that it is for the gain of oil and to implace puppet politicians in there as well .... But I totally agree with it because maybe im biased because of my background and my family's background with the military

Discipline - 10-3-2005 at 03:04 PM

I just think that here in the west we have enough problems of our own. We should clean up our own shit before telling others how to live.

serenity - 10-3-2005 at 03:31 PM

how did your relatives defend your country in vietnam? i thought you defended your country if you were being attacked, not the attacker

1. no. couldnt really care less though as it is not conscription in the us. if you enlist, then suite yourself.

2. my problem - my problem. your problem - your problem. as simple as that.

3. you were the cause of problem and you shall be the solution to it also.

4. no. sweden hasnt been in war for over 190 years.

moron - 10-3-2005 at 05:36 PM

The war on terror and the war in Iraq are two separate things. THe president might have tried to tie them together, but he was wrong. So, no I dont support this war. The war on terrorism.... Im not sure. We certainly can't sit around and let a group attack us, but is this a war with any forseeable end? I think it's near impossible to kill every terrorist that hates the United States. That doesn't mean that we shouldnt seek them out, but there should be some other changes in this country that might give terrorists less of a reason to hate us. First should be to find a viable source of energy that can allow us to be less reliant on fossil fuels.

tireironsaint - 10-3-2005 at 05:47 PM

There is no war on terror. That's the name being slapped on several things that Bush is shoving down our throats, but none of them have the slightest thing to do with fighting terrorists. The main terror I see is that which Bush is using to manipulate the country with, not some "terrorist regime". I wholeheartedly agree that 9/11 was a terrorist act of huge proportions and beyond horrible, but I think our government has distorted that to meet their own ends.

As for the rest of the questions..
1. No, fortunately everyone I know who was in the military are finished serving.
2. I think this war is a fucking scam.
3. No easy answer there. We made a huge fuckin' mess over there based on lies and greed and we need to clean it up and get the fuck out as soon as we can, but who knows how long that will take. Years, decades???
4. I'm not, but some of my family and friends are.

serenity - 10-4-2005 at 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Boycott Christian HC
Ariel Sharon is the one who is really fighting a war on terror. He's a hero.

i dont get it

Voodoobillyman - 10-4-2005 at 02:09 PM

Ariel Sharon is the pres of Isreal...............

I currently serve in the US Navy and I do think we belong in this war. True, US policy in the middle East needs to be reformed and changed, however, this war has been going on essentially since the Crusades and will never end, the means of destruction have just become more efficient. I have deployed to the Gulf twice, once for the invasion of Iraq and I had no second thoughts about what it was I was doing. When 9/11 went down Bush stood at a podium in fron of the ruins of the towers and told the country we were going to get the ones responsible for this, we were going to take the fight to them. Everyone backed him, with few exceptions and he went on to tell us that this war could take a long time, it was a war we had never engaged in before and the rules were different. I believe peoples opinions are based on their perspective, someone who has lost a loved one to a mindless act of terror against innocent people could justify this war in many ways that someone sitting in front of a t.v with no real connection could not. I served on boarding teams for the Navy in the hunt for terrorists and I have been activley engaged in the adoption and training of anti terror tactics aboard vessels. This war , regardless of disengaged peoples thoughts, is necessary and trust me when I tell you, these people will not stop until either we/ or they are all dead, I firmly believe this. Better them than us.

serenity - 10-4-2005 at 02:50 PM

yea well, im not getting involved in this one again

newbreedbrian - 10-4-2005 at 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Ariel Sharon is the pres of Isreal...............

I currently serve in the US Navy and I do think we belong in this war. True, US policy in the middle East needs to be reformed and changed, however, this war has been going on essentially since the Crusades and will never end, the means of destruction have just become more efficient. I have deployed to the Gulf twice, once for the invasion of Iraq and I had no second thoughts about what it was I was doing. When 9/11 went down Bush stood at a podium in fron of the ruins of the towers and told the country we were going to get the ones responsible for this, we were going to take the fight to them. Everyone backed him, with few exceptions and he went on to tell us that this war could take a long time, it was a war we had never engaged in before and the rules were different. I believe peoples opinions are based on their perspective, someone who has lost a loved one to a mindless act of terror against innocent people could justify this war in many ways that someone sitting in front of a t.v with no real connection could not. I served on boarding teams for the Navy in the hunt for terrorists and I have been activley engaged in the adoption and training of anti terror tactics aboard vessels. This war , regardless of disengaged peoples thoughts, is necessary and trust me when I tell you, these people will not stop until either we/ or they are all dead, I firmly believe this. Better them than us.

the war is necessary to what end? "to get the ones responsible"? saddam had nothing to do with 9/11, so im not buying that one. to stop terrorism? do you think US actions in the middle east have done anything to stop the flow of anti US sentiment? how is all your comments about "ragheads" and "better them than us" any different than the anti US sentiment that makes you so mad? because of 9/11? how much damage has been caused/funded by the US gov't in the middle east over the years? a hell of alot more than one attack. nobody asks why this shit happens even though it's right in front of everyones face the whole time. it's much easier to believe they're jealous of freedom blah blah blah than to ask tough questions. i don't believe the US is in the middle east out of anything other than bloated self interest. alot of wealthy people stand to get even wealthier at the expense of alot of poor peoples lives

Killthehumans - 10-4-2005 at 10:18 PM

Im all for Removal of sadam , and other Despots, however the war on terror is B.S., Bush is using it to advance his own policy. The extremsists we are supposivly fighting used to be buddies with the rich conservative elite in america. Id agree if bush truly wanted to free people, but he doesnt, he wants to impose US policy and his neo con agenda. Im also mad at all the stuff that is now coming out about the administrations forging intelligence and falsifying stuff. The fact is he put the troops their for his own bullshit reasons, not for freedom or liberty or democracy. People say "i like bush , hes a regular guy"...no he isnt. He grew up rich and spoiled, hes just trying to get more of what he wants.
ANother thing is why do people hate america? its not because they hate freedom or liberty...its because we are rich and in the words of ramallah
"while we dance and drank fine wine they are screaming to an empty sky",
They live in poverty , we live in extravagance(compared to them at least),we buy products that pollute their environment. And the Islamic extremists Take advantage of this and use it against us.
We need to finish the mission , but we need to oust bush

My freinds brother is in the navy over there
and my uncle and grandpa were marines

Killthehumans - 10-4-2005 at 10:21 PM

its also funny how haliburton got most of the contracts over there, and the media doesnt report that...
-thats my rant for now

for more ranting and raving see signature below or listen to ramallah

Voodoobillyman - 10-5-2005 at 08:46 AM

New Breed, for one, I never called anyone a raghead, so please do not put words in my mouth to further your argument of my apparent ignorance. This war did not start with 9/11, it started with the bombing of Marine barracks in Lebanon, and hijackings and hostage taking in Iran and other middle eastern areas. Certain communities within the military, especially Special forces, have been pushing for more action and orientation towards that for years, it took thousands of people dying for something to happen, which is sad. However the politics fall, I firmly believe we belong over there for our own protection. Bin Laden used to be an ally of the CIA and alot of the tactics being taught to others by him were taught to him by our own during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. I am not stupid, i understand we are over there for self interest reasons which favor the rich, but you have to take up American foreign policy with presidents dating as far back as Roosevelt, "speak softly and carry a big stick" lessons learned from "not getting involved" during WWII were harsh to say the least. The fact of the matter is, we are now engaged in war with certain factions of the middle east and it will not end in peace, do you really believe that if we left the middle east completely, they would just forgive and forget? Don't be foolish.
I am all for alternate energy sources and independance from oil, Show me an honest politician who would make that a reality and he/she has my vote, and if you think Kerry was that person, I say again, don't be foolish. For now though, my car runs on gas, as does yours I'm sure, stop bitching about blood for oil, or war for oil and do something about it, and while your at it please convince the rest of America to join you. I have decided to face reality, and my reality is a military one in a time of war, whether you agree with it or not.

newbreedbrian - 10-5-2005 at 09:25 AM

New Breed, for one, I never called anyone a raghead, so please do not put words in my mouth to further your argument of my apparent ignorance

"This war did not start with 9/11" "When 9/11 went down Bush stood at a podium in fron of the ruins of the towers and told the country we were going to get the ones responsible for this, we were going to take the fight to them"

i am well aware of the connection between bin laden and the CIA, it further illustrates the point that the US gov't could give a fuck about human suffering as long as it furthers their own interests. WW2 was a justified war and the states were the last country to enter it, only after they were forced to do so. i never said there should be a complete pullout, and were way past the point of forgive and forget now. now who's putting words in whos mouth? there should never have been an invasion/occupation in the first place. hmm, don't remember saying anything about kerry. wouldn't have gotten my vote but a hell of a lot better option than that spoiled little rich moron currently runnin the show. im facing the reality that we are being lied to, and not swallowing the bullshit we're fed on a daily basis. critical thought is an antiquated notion i know, ah well off to watch some reality tv i guess.

moron - 10-5-2005 at 09:48 AM

Iraq has nothing to do with the war on terror. Well, at least it didn't before we got there.

Voodoobillyman - 10-5-2005 at 12:14 PM

"This war did not start with 9/11" "When 9/11 went down Bush stood at a podium in fron of the ruins of the towers and told the country we were going to get the ones responsible for this, we were going to take the fight to them"

I see you're trying to make it look like I contradicted myself, what you left out was the rest of that quote, it should look like this:

"This war did not start with 9/11, it started with the bombing of Marine barracks in Lebanon, and hijackings and hostage taking in Iran and other middle eastern areas. Certain communities within the military, especially Special forces, have been pushing for more action and orientation towards that for years, it took thousands of people dying for something to happen, which is sad."

which then leads into this:

"When 9/11 went down Bush stood at a podium in fron of the ruins of the towers and told the country we were going to get the ones responsible for this, we were going to take the fight to them."

I think it makes much more sense when it's not taken out of context. I am not trying to personally stab at you, I love that we are free to debate, it's one of the greatest things about this country, and i'm glad you can think whatever you want about our president, good on you for excercising one of your rights. People in Iraq were tortured, imprisoned and killed for saying what you say so freely and without thought of retribution. We went in for bad reasons on poor intelligence and alot of media fabrication, this cannot be denied, but since we are there, i am all for the removal of that tyrant bastard and his whole regime. He did support terrorist factions, both economically and geographically, but did not have weapons of mass destruction as the government claimed earlier, I believe history can look past this once all is done and said. I also believe that Bush will have to answer someday to someone about his personal interests in all of this. I am not saying he is innocent at all, but what would you have us do now?? As you said yourself, we are beyond forgive and forget, but woulda coulda shoulda aint gonna cut it, and someone like yourself certainly knows this. And i think critical thinking is especially important in the days of the Patriot Act, we live in scary times to be sure, but I still firmly believe in this war and where it's being fought. So please keep thinking the way you are and keep speaking up, we need people like you to make sure things are kept in check to a certain degree. I am not being sarcastic either, I mean that.

moron - 10-5-2005 at 12:31 PM

I agree that right now it doesnt matter how we got involved with Iraq. We're there and we need to finish what we started hopefully saving face at the same time. I hope that a democratic government can be formed and maintained in Iraq, but I have a hard time seeing that happen.

Another thing that really doesnt matter now, but Saddam had no ties to Al Queda. They were natural enemies actually. Al Queda supports Islamic governments that have rules set by the Curan, while Saddam's government was secular. The CIA even said that there were no ties between Al Queda and Saddam before we invaded Iraq. Like I said before it doesnt really matter now, but I just wanted to state that since you mentioned that Saddam was supporting terrorist factions. Maybe he was, but he certainly wasnt supporting the terrorists we were going after.

Voodoobillyman - 10-5-2005 at 12:48 PM

Good point Moron, No I did not mean Al Queda when i refered to the factions Saddam supported, but Al Queda is not our only worry. There are literally hundreds of groups that do not agree with them fundamentally. These groups all share the same vision for Western civilization though.

xsharpx - 10-5-2005 at 08:20 PM

ok maybe its just that I am biased on the whole thing since I served for my COUNTRY as well as a majority of my friends and family. I know that underlining the whole thing is to gain the control of the oil trade just like Vietnam was to control the opium trade... we should have gone in and removed saddam hussein from office when we had the chance after desert storm when we KNEW as well as NATO knew that he was violating the codes and orders that had been set by NATO after the conflict.
There are so many terrorist groups in and outside of the middle east i.e. al queda, generation jihad and so many more in the middle east, philipines and more countries. Not to mention the splinter cell groups inside of the united states, england and more... well anyways I think that now that we have their goverment set up it is time to pull out our men and woman But when you have that many men and woman the time to pull them out...

moron - 10-5-2005 at 08:46 PM

The thing is that if we pull out now the government probably wont last long. It needs a military to defend it, and it's been a very tough job trying to get their army trained well.

We had a great plan for beating Saddam's forces and getting him out of power, but apparently our plan for setting up the government and pulling out our troops wasn't as well planned out. I have a feeling we'll have to be in there for a few more years in order to do a proper job.

xsharpx - 10-5-2005 at 09:12 PM

yeah I feel ya right there moron.... Being that I am a former US Marine infantry I can honestly say that you are right. We can not fully pull out right now because even though the conflict is over now we are still losing men and woman due to the opposition of the militant terrorists that are 100% against the reason that we are over there. We are trying to spread the western and American culture that we are bringing. They are against the capatalist society that we are as Americans which sucks but its true. Our society is truely against the money hungry people that we are and that they are against that. They dont want our goverment, they dont want the things that we are trying to instill. Not to mention the fact that we arent truely accepted by alot of eastern societies. But I mean I know that we are going to be over there at least another 5 years. I can see that and to tell you the truth I think that sucks!
I believe that we as a people and our goverment keeps wanting to focus on other countries problems and fixing them when we may have the same problems here that need to be fixed. We have homeless, unemployment, starving, corruption and so much more on a large scale basis that we need to take care of... we need to figure out how we are going to fix the problems in our own country before we try to fix someone elses problems...

newbreedbrian - 10-5-2005 at 11:16 PM

i appreciate that you can debate without resorting to name calling voodoo, as that hasn't been my experience with most people on the right. the fact is that if there was a time for saddam to be removed it was in the early 80s when he was gassing the kurds, which wasn't a secret by any means. once again i don't think humanitarianism is the reason for occupation/invasion in this case. fuck, look at rwanda. close to a million (!!!!) people died in civil war there in a little over a few months and the world collectively didn't give a shit. and the only countries that pretended to give a shit were belgium and france, both with a vested interest in what happened and who ended up in power after the war. look at the congolese war going on right now, same damn thing. and i think you hit the nail on the head sharp, although im not sure if it was intentional. with a country that has a hell of a lot of problems to fix, how does it make sense to impose your will and way on another society? especially on one of the oldest civilizations in the world. i think shit like the patriot act is a lot more of a threat to the average citizen's civil liberties than any terrorist organization. you wanna defend our freedom to speak our minds? the only people threatening that are the likes of people pushing shit like the patriot act through congress. seems like a pretty regressive step for a "free society" to me

Voodoobillyman - 10-6-2005 at 06:11 PM

I couldnt agree more on the Patriot act, it serves some purpose, but in the wrong hands, where it is right now, it is VERY dangerous. We do have alot of problems to solve in this country absolutely, but we need the right people to step up to the bat and do it right, and so far, we have not had that honor. Foreign policy is just as important though becuase if we do not project our interests and influence in this newly formed global community brought together by the advances in communicative technology, we are going to lose our status as a superpower, which is what our whole society is based on now. We do need change desperately, but it's going to take alot of REAL effort on everyones part as well as time and patience, which we know we do not have alot of in this country. The War on Terror is necessary, but needs to be thought out differently by the powers that be.