Thorp and Sailor's Grave Board

wonderin...

newbreedbrian - 1-12-2006 at 08:06 PM

about religion. do you believe in god? why or why not? were you raised religious, if so what religion? has anyone "found" or "lost" faith and what age were you when it happened?

gavin - 1-12-2006 at 08:14 PM

nah
all voodoo to me

clevohardcore - 1-12-2006 at 08:21 PM

grandparents both sides are Catholic. My parents never went to church much and are divorced. so I never really had much religious influence. I believe in God. Denomination??? I am baptisted Catholic. My wife before we got married was baptised Non- denominational. I have thought of going to church. I have not commited yet though.

Discipline - 1-12-2006 at 08:32 PM

I don't belive in God or any of that kinda shit. I hate all religions and would like to see them all destroyed. I was taken to church as a young lad but my mom stopped because apparently I was calling it bullshit at 5 years old. I didn't believe in it. Religion has caused more wars than anything else. Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine. I have always believed that religions that speak of an afterlife were invented because people are afraid to die, and needed to believe that their life meant more. Me personally, I think you die and you rot, that's it. No soul, no heaven or hell, none of that shit.

joemaconmovies - 1-12-2006 at 10:02 PM

i believe in it. i think you have to show a little respect to other people's beliefs, Discipline. I don't wanna get too much into it because it's not worth arguing with you over it because I've had this conversation with people like you before. Anyways, I was brought up Catholic. I had a period of 2 or 3 years where I lost my faith but met a person who could talk to me intelligently and bring in religion with out seeming preachy. I consider myself a Chrsitain but don't specify a certain part of it. I guess a reason I am religious is that I was brought up that way. But...I did stop believing and then chose to believe so I feel that I made my own decision there. I can't really explain why I believe. That's kind of hard to do. I just have reasons for believing now.

defstarsteve - 1-12-2006 at 10:17 PM

baptised roman catholic, my grandmother was wise with the force, but after she died when I was 7, we didn't have anything to do with religion anymore....
didn't effect me at all...
over the years I have looked into different mythos, and to me that's all they are, you can believe what you like, but I put my faith into myself, and my ability to do they things I need to.

There is no god, no easter bunny, no tooth fairy and no santa.

moron - 1-12-2006 at 10:38 PM

Ive never really believed in God. I certainly can't be sure that there is or isnt a God, but overall it just doesnt matter to me. Im ok with not knowing for sure how it all began or why we're here.

clevohardcore - 1-12-2006 at 10:44 PM

Lets be honest here. No one here is for certain God exists in our form. However FAITH is what gives people the power to believe. Faith is personal and you can't fuck with someones personal convictions. Just like you amy choose not to believe someone else has chosen to see. Either way its what makes a person who they are.

Voodoobillyman - 1-13-2006 at 09:51 AM

I definitely believe in God. There is a specific name for what I belive but I forget it. Basically in my opinion, there is a God, and God did do alot of what the Bible says. Heres the twist, I belive we have become intelligent enough through science to understand HOW God does the things God does. The two always conflict, but I belive they coexsist. I do not attend any church nor claim any denomination, I was baptised Lutheran but do not like the politics and corruption within organized religion. I distrust humans with the kind of power the church has. We as a species are incapable of weilding that much power without corrupting it in some way. The teachings of Jesus Christ are the answer to a peaceful life, whether you belive in him or not, his message is undeniable. It is basic appreciation and respect for others. Now the Old Testament with it's eye for an eye and retribution brought by pissed Angels has it's own purpose as well:)

JawnDiablo - 1-13-2006 at 10:40 AM

I'm not religious or spiritual.
I won't knock others for their faith.
But some go too far with it. They push it on others as absolute truth/ or total fact. It is called faith for a reason. Nothing has ever been proven to me,
I was raised in a catholic household. My mom still goes to church, but i have not practiced the religion since i was a kid.
Most religions based on Christ, have the same theory, some are just more strit or fanatical.
I look at this way, if there is a here after, regardless of ones beleifs, i feel they will be granted entry to the promised land if they live their life as good honest people and do well by their fellow man and not cheat, hurt or harm others.
but religion just isn't for me. any of it.

CR83 - 1-13-2006 at 12:05 PM

I was raised Catholic and I am non practicing. The catholic church did nothing for us kids in an effort to get us invovled. It was always, "Go to church! God and your parents say so!". I went to a Christian Sports Bible camp for several years with the Presbyterian kids in my neighborhood (aka the public school kids) and it was awesome. They all made being Christian exciting. I consider myself Christian (it is actually my first name too).

I pray more and more as I get older. I pray more and more now that I'm a parent. I do beleive I'm going to heaven as well.

Voodoobillyman - 1-13-2006 at 12:07 PM

Quote:

But some go too far with it. They push it on others as absolute truth/ or total fact.



I could'nt agree with this more
Religious zealots are some of the most judgemental people I have come across. It's their way or the highway............to hell. Seems rather "unChristianly" to me.....how about you? They usually end up being the biggest hypocrits and major pains in the ass.

JawnDiablo - 1-13-2006 at 01:05 PM

my favorites are the former derelict druggies who use jesus as a crutch not that they are clean and view everyone else who is different as immoral
i work with a woman who used every filthy drug in circulation, but now since jesus saved her you cant even swear in her presence for she will be offended..funny thing is she used to turn tricks for a bag of blow...
if you're born right the first time, you don't have to be born again.

moron - 1-13-2006 at 01:14 PM

I usually avoid any conversation about religion. It's just uncomfortable because lots of people are shocked when you say that religion isnt important to you or you dont believe in god. My old boss was very religious and she asked me if I was getting married in a church. I said no, and that started a lecture on how religion and the church is important. I just let it go in one ear and out the other, and also learned to avoid that topic with her.

This isnt directly related, but I went to a meeting earlier this week and was introduced to a lady there. She greeted me with "Good morning. Jesus loves you" I just said "thanks. Nice to meet you". It was totally awkward. Really... what is the proper response to something like that? Luckily she didnt speak much English so I didnt have to talk to her.

JawnDiablo - 1-13-2006 at 02:24 PM

it is not even proper to introduce oneself in that manner, especially in yoe work place.

upyerbum - 1-13-2006 at 06:23 PM

I follow the path of gnosis, personally. (thats really funny if you know anything about gnostic thought)

newbreedbrian - 1-14-2006 at 01:20 PM

interesting responses. obviously there are judgemental people on both sides of the coin, it's human nature. for those with faith, what do you think about evolution? has it made your faith waiver at all? can the two co-exist, or is it one or the other?

JawnDiablo - 1-14-2006 at 03:13 PM

perhaps evolution was the product of intelligent design......
shit some people around me never evolved...

tireironsaint - 1-14-2006 at 04:36 PM

I see a HUGE difference between someone feeling they have a personal relationship with whatever they believe in and organized religion. Organized religion is one of the worst things to ever happen to the world, in my opinion. I try not to get into religious discussions with friends and family because it's sure to press people's buttons no matter where they stand on it. I was raised methodist and decided on my own that the church was full of shit and hypocritical. They talked constantly about acceptance and not judging others, and yet they were the most closed off and judgemental people ever. That's aside from issues of faith, I've always been too logic driven to ever go in for the "just believe" mentality. I can appreciate that there is a lesson buried within religion about trying to do right and treat others correctly, but that's the one part of religion that most religious people seem to throw away.

SHAKO KEN - 1-14-2006 at 04:50 PM

third generation atheist/agnostic here. things always made sense without religion and i could understand why other people did believe, so i never felt a real need for it. but if i had been raised a muslim i'd probably still be a muslim today, that's how it works.
i think science and religion can coexist as long as you interpret some parts of holy scriptures like the bible/koran etc. as metaphors instead of facts.

serenity - 1-14-2006 at 04:52 PM

Quote:
Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine.


that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.

when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards brought.

also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion

Discipline - 1-14-2006 at 04:54 PM

I should add one thing to my thoughts from above and that if you believe in this stuff, than that's cool. I used to try to convince people I was right when I was younger, but now I'm of the "to each their own" school of thought. I look at religion the same way I look at things like straight edge, don't force yer way of life on me, and I won't force mine on you.

tireironsaint - 1-14-2006 at 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine.


that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.

when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards brought.

also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion
Not much of a fan of history, are you?

Starting from the bottom and going up....
Aside from some modern wars, and some of those are debatable, almost ALL wars throughout history have been religious wars.
The conquistadors came to the Americas to conquer and convert. Sounds religious to me.
Over the whole of history, religion has caused a whole lot more pain, suffering, and death than one third of Europe's population at that one point in time. Maybe not all at once, as you're suggesting, but in total.
And yes, I'm simplifying, but certainly not distorting what happened.

serenity - 1-14-2006 at 06:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine.


that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.

when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards brought.

also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion
Not much of a fan of history, are you?

Starting from the bottom and going up....
Aside from some modern wars, and some of those are debatable, almost ALL wars throughout history have been religious wars.
The conquistadors came to the Americas to conquer and convert. Sounds religious to me.
Over the whole of history, religion has caused a whole lot more pain, suffering, and death than one third of Europe's population at that one point in time. Maybe not all at once, as you're suggesting, but in total.
And yes, I'm simplifying, but certainly not distorting what happened.


im a big fan of history actually, and most wars is about increase the land and economic wealth, not religion. the conquistadores came for the gold, not to convert.

i just took the plague as an example of a disease that killed many more than religion.

i dont think religion has killed more people than disease and non-religious wars, and even if it has, i dont care. my sorrow wont bring them back anyway

tireironsaint - 1-14-2006 at 07:17 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine.


that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.

when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards brought.

also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion
Not much of a fan of history, are you?

Starting from the bottom and going up....
Aside from some modern wars, and some of those are debatable, almost ALL wars throughout history have been religious wars.
The conquistadors came to the Americas to conquer and convert. Sounds religious to me.
Over the whole of history, religion has caused a whole lot more pain, suffering, and death than one third of Europe's population at that one point in time. Maybe not all at once, as you're suggesting, but in total.
And yes, I'm simplifying, but certainly not distorting what happened.


im a big fan of history actually, and most wars is about increase the land and economic wealth, not religion. the conquistadores came for the gold, not to convert.

i just took the plague as an example of a disease that killed many more than religion.

i dont think religion has killed more people than disease and non-religious wars, and even if it has, i dont care. my sorrow wont bring them back anyway
Well, from my perspective it appears that your appreciation of history is skewed. Granted, wars are fought for economic reasons as well as a number of other things, but in general, who has been behind them? How many wars throughout time have been fought on completely nonreligious terms? Why was The Church the entity to go to when people wanted to gain support for their war?

Glad you agree on the plague thing being misleading.

Wow, one of my most favorite arguments ever. "I disagree, but if I'm wrong, I don't care." You sure told me.

serenity - 1-14-2006 at 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine.


that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.

when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards brought.

also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion
Not much of a fan of history, are you?

Starting from the bottom and going up....
Aside from some modern wars, and some of those are debatable, almost ALL wars throughout history have been religious wars.
The conquistadors came to the Americas to conquer and convert. Sounds religious to me.
Over the whole of history, religion has caused a whole lot more pain, suffering, and death than one third of Europe's population at that one point in time. Maybe not all at once, as you're suggesting, but in total.
And yes, I'm simplifying, but certainly not distorting what happened.


im a big fan of history actually, and most wars is about increase the land and economic wealth, not religion. the conquistadores came for the gold, not to convert.

i just took the plague as an example of a disease that killed many more than religion.

i dont think religion has killed more people than disease and non-religious wars, and even if it has, i dont care. my sorrow wont bring them back anyway
Well, from my perspective it appears that your appreciation of history is skewed. Granted, wars are fought for economic reasons as well as a number of other things, but in general, who has been behind them? How many wars throughout time have been fought on completely nonreligious terms? Why was The Church the entity to go to when people wanted to gain support for their war?

Glad you agree on the plague thing being misleading.

Wow, one of my most favorite arguments ever. "I disagree, but if I'm wrong, I don't care." You sure told me.


kings and leaders have been behind the wars. none of the world wars were about religion, the gulf war wasnt either. MANY wars have been fought without religion being a factor.

yea, they went to the church to gain entity, implying they already had thoughts of going to war. they just seeked support, not a reason.

i dont agree with you, i think you misunderstood me.

again, i dont agree with you, but im just saying nothing i do will bring them back.

tireironsaint - 1-14-2006 at 07:40 PM

Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.

Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.

On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.

serenity - 1-14-2006 at 08:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.

Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.

On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.


the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in scandinavia/northen europe.

never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.

yes, i realized my mistake there.

sippers - 1-14-2006 at 08:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by defstarsteve
you can believe what you like, but I put my faith into myself, and my ability to do they things I need to.

There is no god, no easter bunny, no tooth fairy and no santa.
WERD!!!could'nt of said it better myself..my true god the alarm clock w/o it i'd be shit..greg

jonnynewbreed - 1-15-2006 at 12:08 AM

Mother was Irish Catholic, father is prodistant. It makes me and my brothers confused and unbaptised. Holy water has never touched this head.

Discipline - 1-15-2006 at 01:16 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.

Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.

On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.


the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in scandinavia/northen europe.

never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.

yes, i realized my mistake there.


World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one.

serenity - 1-15-2006 at 08:50 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.

Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.

On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.


the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in scandinavia/northen europe.

never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.

yes, i realized my mistake there.


World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one.


wwii had to do with race, not religion.

upyerbum - 1-15-2006 at 09:48 AM

I'd like to suggest a book...I don't want to come across preachy here, but I'm a recovering Catholic, and for years I could not reconcile the religion I was raised in (I served mass as a youngster, and no I was never molested) with the world I was witnessing around me. Ive spent years researching the origins of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. I learned a lot about the history of These religions but not much about the origins. Then I read a book that sorted it all out for me. I'm not suggesting this book will change your views or life but it definitely put it all into a historical perspective that makes far more sense to me than anything the church has ever told me. The book is called "The Jesus Mysteries" it's written by two fella's, Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. They've since written a second book called "Jesus and the Goddess". Both good books for all you seekers out there. As I said I normally don't give "advice" when it comes to religion but I think every Christian who has ever questioned their religion should read these books.

JawnDiablo - 1-15-2006 at 02:36 PM

hellboy was on tv yesterday....wait that has nothing to do with any of this...

Discipline - 1-15-2006 at 04:35 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.

Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.

On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.


the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in scandinavia/northen europe.

never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.

yes, i realized my mistake there.


World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one.


wwii had to do with race, not religion.


Judaism isn't a religion?

serenity - 1-15-2006 at 05:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline

Judaism isn't a religion?


jews are considered a race, even though judaism is a religion

JawnDiablo - 1-15-2006 at 05:54 PM

anyone for jew jokes?

forsaken - 1-16-2006 at 02:13 AM

i was brought up in a baptist christian family, went to church every week and even christian school til i turned 18 and then i just ditched religion. i had no faith and there was no personal relationship with god ... and without that it's just an empty fucking waste of shit ... why organised religion sucks ... people just believe shit and don't think for themselves or even wonder why they're doing it. my friends been going to catholic mass every week for 22 years and he doesn't know shit .. he just does it becuase he's italian and it's been in his family line since the beginning of time.

this all said, i believe in god. somehow.

upyerbum - 1-16-2006 at 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by serenity
Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline

Judaism isn't a religion?


jews are considered a race, even though judaism is a religion


Jews are not a race. Judaism is a religion. Most jews who come from jewish families (ie. not converts) are Semitic. Anyone can be a jew.

JawnDiablo - 1-16-2006 at 11:47 PM

Slayer rocks