Thorp and Sailor's Grave Board

The connection between hip hop and hardcore

DaveMoral - 2-25-2006 at 12:26 PM

Alright, here's the way I see it.

Hip hop is the natural result of urban kids raised on R&B and Soul and street corner poetry ala The Last Poets.

Hardcore punk and Oi is the natural result of urban youth raised on rock n roll.

It all emerged at about the same time, and particularly in the case of the US, there was bound to be some cross pollunation because of the proximity of urban black kids to the same urban kids who started and got into hardcore punk.

I think the differences are glaring, but the main point is that there's an underlying similarity.

If there's any one reason why hardcore punk didn't take off like hip hop and rap it's because the market was already flooded with white music... and no one gives a damn about poor mostly white kids making some noise, while rap was pretty much the only major noise being made by black youth in it's time. Shit the Beastie Boys are an example of hardcore punk turned hip hop.

Aside from all of that, it all goes back to rock n roll having originated with black youth in the first place.

This is mostly rambling, but see what you can figure out from it.

One last thing, the various methods of mosh/slam dance are basically the hardcore punk equivalent to break dancing.

XHonusWagnerX - 2-25-2006 at 12:38 PM

The reason I dont like that the combo of Hardcore mixed with Rap is pretty widley accepted is because the mixture of metal with rap is completly shunned and looked down on.

That being said, when its done well (just a matter of opinion) I like both metal/rap and hardcore/rap combos.

I can also appreciate and enjoy some straight ahead rap music and I can enjoy the comedic value of a song like 'rap sucks' by Slapshot.

DaveMoral - 2-25-2006 at 12:46 PM

No doubt.

I love Downset, I think they did the combo well. But I think the entire subculture of hardcore punk runs parallel to the hip hop subculture... not that it needs to be crossed over at all... I just think that you're going to get that hip hop flavor in hardcore punk... and on occasion you're going to get hardcore flavor in hip hop.

My friend Foekus did vegan straight edge raps talking about gripping microphones with Xs on his fists and rapping stuff like "I mix Chuck D with Bad Religion." And he's a good rapper.

To me, hardcore is my hip hop. I like hip hop, but I'm no hip hop head. I'm a hardcore kid through and through, but I still see how it's all related.

Kid Ugly - 2-25-2006 at 01:46 PM

http://www.skinheadnation.co.uk/oi!.htm

clevohardcore - 2-25-2006 at 02:10 PM

I think the issue is PUNK was rejecting this very issue of being popular. even though it was comforming a look or style or sound it was still rejecting. HARDCORE was a blend of punk but and metal that too style and attitude to a new level. Suburban??? maybe but I think the hiphop flavor in hardcore is street cred if you ask me. I aint tryin to analize but it legit is you ask me. the fake hardcore bands and kids showed true colors and are gone. Some new ones will always be but they will leave as well.

clevohardcore - 2-25-2006 at 02:11 PM

I only liked DO WE SPEAK A DEAD LANGUAGE? The 7th track is one of the radest songs ever.

Discipline - 2-25-2006 at 04:06 PM

Don't like the rapcore.

XHonusWagnerX - 2-25-2006 at 05:40 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore.


What constitutes "rapcore" to you? Im curious.

tireironsaint - 2-25-2006 at 05:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore.
Seconded. For me that means anything which sounds remotely HC-ish and then they throw in some hip hop beats, some rapping, or anything else swiped from that genre. It sounds ridiculous as well as being a pose. Fortunately for me, there is pretty much NO band I like who would seriously do something like this in a song. Oh, and don't get me wrong, from time to time, I can enjoy a little Rap, although almost always Old School stuff and even then I'm very picky.

Voodoobillyman - 2-25-2006 at 09:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore.
Seconded. For me that means anything which sounds remotely HC-ish and then they throw in some hip hop beats, some rapping, or anything else swiped from that genre. It sounds ridiculous as well as being a pose. Fortunately for me, there is pretty much NO band I like who would seriously do something like this in a song. Oh, and don't get me wrong, from time to time, I can enjoy a little Rap, although almost always Old School stuff and even then I'm very picky.



I am of the same opinion on this one..........rap mixed with anything has the GAY.

DaveMoral - 2-25-2006 at 09:48 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Kid Ugly
http://www.skinheadnation.co.uk/oi!.htm


Thanks for that, that says what I was trying to better than I ever could.

Mute98 - 2-25-2006 at 11:19 PM

Son of Skam=one hell of a band

Downset is ok.. i always thought madball had a touch of hip-hop here and there

clevohardcore - 2-26-2006 at 12:04 AM

Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms, and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.

SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.

tireironsaint - 2-26-2006 at 01:33 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by clevohardcore
Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms, and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.

SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.
Please tell me you're kidding.....

XHonusWagnerX - 2-26-2006 at 01:36 AM

What about BIOHAZARD, MUCKY PUP, E TOWN CONCRETE, EASTCIDE, 7TH RAIL CREW, 7 HILL PSYCHOS? I think SKARHEAD has some rap influence to it. I think most of the NY bands that came out from Madball on have a rap influence to them, even if its just in the way they act and carry themselves.

Kid Ugly - 2-26-2006 at 03:13 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Quote:
Originally posted by Kid Ugly
http://www.skinheadnation.co.uk/oi!.htm


Thanks for that, that says what I was trying to better than I ever could.


Not a problem. I saw the article a while back and it was the first thng that came to mind when I read this thread.

clevohardcore - 2-26-2006 at 03:38 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by clevohardcore
Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms, and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.

SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.
Please tell me you're kidding.....




Not in the very least sucka fool. WORD UP!

DaveMoral - 2-26-2006 at 11:18 AM

Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?

Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel.

XHonusWagnerX - 2-26-2006 at 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?

Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel.


Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.

The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed at.

JUICE MAYNE MSHC - 2-26-2006 at 01:31 PM

dudes...DOG EAT DOG "All Boro Kings"!!

thedog - 2-26-2006 at 02:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by JUICE MAYNE MSHC
dudes...DOG EAT DOG "All Boro Kings"!!


great call on that one, great album.

i like a lot of the rap influenced stuff.
downset
e-town
boxcutter
full court press
dog eat dog
candiria
madball
skarhead
donnybrook
fahrenheit 451
d9

tireironsaint - 2-26-2006 at 04:07 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?

Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel.


Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.

The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed at.
Nah, don't worry Honus, I laugh at all of it. I mean fuck, combining Rap and Metal is like combining cat shit with dog shit and thinking you've got something good. HC and Rap is possibly even worse as far as I'm concerned.

Voodoobillyman - 2-26-2006 at 08:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by tireironsaint
Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?

Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel.


Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.

The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed at.
Nah, don't worry Honus, I laugh at all of it. I mean fuck, combining Rap and Metal is like combining cat shit with dog shit and thinking you've got something good. HC and Rap is possibly even worse as far as I'm concerned.



Fuckin horrible fer sure

DaveMoral - 2-26-2006 at 08:14 PM

I think it depends on the combination of rap and metal... I was into Rage Against the Machine... but I think the problem with Korn and Limp Bizkit and the like is that they're fakin' the funk so to speak. Like that Fred Durst dude fronts like he's all hard and shit, but that guy's a pussy... and his band dress like a bunch of faggots.

I hate all the costumed up bullshit in metal in general, except GWAR because let's face it GWAR is hilarious, I'm not into the whole look and fake rebellion those dudes are selling to the kids. Especially when that bullshit cock rock gets associated with the shit I listen to and love.

Madball's got a certain hip hop flavor, but they're not "rapcore" by any stretch of the imagination. I honestly have never been into E-town Concrete really at all... but that's just me, they're definitely "rapcore." I think it comes down to more of a like... it's alright when dudes are immersed in both cultures and a real. You know? E-town's not frontin' on either hardcore or hip hop... but Limp Bizkit and the like are without a doubt frontin' on both scenes. Perpetrators, as they say.

ENDERA.x - 2-28-2006 at 12:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Alright, here's the way I see it.

Hip hop is the natural result of urban kids raised on R&B and Soul and street corner poetry ala The Last Poets.

Hardcore punk and Oi is the natural result of urban youth raised on rock n roll.

It all emerged at about the same time, and particularly in the case of the US, there was bound to be some cross pollunation because of the proximity of urban black kids to the same urban kids who started and got into hardcore punk.

I think the differences are glaring, but the main point is that there's an underlying similarity.

If there's any one reason why hardcore punk didn't take off like hip hop and rap it's because the market was already flooded with white music... and no one gives a damn about poor mostly white kids making some noise, while rap was pretty much the only major noise being made by black youth in it's time. Shit the Beastie Boys are an example of hardcore punk turned hip hop.

Aside from all of that, it all goes back to rock n roll having originated with black youth in the first place.

This is mostly rambling, but see what you can figure out from it.

One last thing, the various methods of mosh/slam dance are basically the hardcore punk equivalent to break dancing.


Exactly.

ENDERA.x - 2-28-2006 at 12:21 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
mixture of metal with rap.



Yeah I know, but more accurately, NUMETAL eh.

ENDERA.x - 2-28-2006 at 12:24 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by clevohardcore
I think the issue is PUNK was rejecting this very issue of being popular. even though it was comforming a look or style or sound it was still rejecting. HARDCORE was a blend of punk but and metal that too style and attitude to a new level. Suburban??? maybe but I think the hiphop flavor in hardcore is street cred if you ask me. I aint tryin to analize but it legit is you ask me. the fake hardcore bands and kids showed true colors and are gone. Some new ones will always be but they will leave as well.



At least from what I've seen (especially in Canada). Suburban??? YEP!!!

Most hardcore isn't that urban at all, at least not the popular shit.. eh, but the thugcore/"toughguy"/beatdown hardcore is street wise and thats what I'm all about, and all usually with some hiphop influence in there too. It's all suburb shit... that ain't that urban to me. Alot of the earlier 90's hardcore was very street oriented and that's what I like, it's real. Fucking posi youth crew now just aint got it man imo. ps - Canadian hardcore is ghey.




**Street Crews that do it right imo.

BFL crew and DMS bands for north america -> nothin' beats.
SMB, NMC, LBU bands in europe -> nothin' beats.

ENDERA.x - 2-28-2006 at 12:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by thedog
Quote:
Originally posted by JUICE MAYNE MSHC
dudes...DOG EAT DOG "All Boro Kings"!!


great call on that one, great album.

i like a lot of the rap influenced stuff.
downset
e-town
boxcutter
full court press
dog eat dog
candiria
madball
skarhead
donnybrook
fahrenheit 451
d9






indeed. hey, NJ, NYC. some FL shit.
and some west coast shit (Cali. mostly )
and Germany/Belgium/Holland/Italy/South America or Spain, they actually have a small few hella tight bands.


LETS NOT FORGET RYKERS.

word.

BKT - 2-28-2006 at 02:32 PM

there are only 2 bands that mix these two types of music well and that is Boxcutter and E-Town Concrete. The rest are nothing short of pathetic attempts. For eg. the so called hip hop song at the ned of madball Hold it Down album. ha ha ha that was very gay.

MM.

DaveMoral - 2-28-2006 at 07:15 PM

No that hip hop track on Hold It Down was horrible... but man, Madball has just the right amount of hip hop flavor in their hardcore cereal... it's unbeatable. By anybody. E-Town can't touch Madball.

XHonusWagnerX - 2-28-2006 at 07:54 PM

Take your turntables and throw them away, hip hop and hardcore that's so fucking gay!

Voodoobillyman - 3-1-2006 at 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
Take your turntables and throw them away, hip hop and hardcore that's so fucking gay!



CROSSOVER SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! fuck yeah, one of my favorite tunes writing wise by him.

KyleOz - 3-1-2006 at 10:19 AM

I like some of the previously mentioned bands, I am surprised I haven't seen anyone mention Cipher though.

DaveMoral - 3-1-2006 at 09:00 PM

Oh shit, Cipher is so tight.

I saw them in NY on the Total Liberation fest in '04... damn, that band would have brought the mosh if there would have been more people showing up. The organizers of the tour really fucked that date up.