Hawthorne Heights leaves Victory Records

moron - 8-7-2006 at 08:06 PM

Not that anyone here will care about this band, but what they have to say is pretty damn interesting. I wonder what other bands want to jump ship.

Hawthorne Heights

Due to recent events we have decided to leave Victory Records. Our departure is anything but amicable. We have decided to leave Victory, in part due to the actions of the man who sits at the head of the label, Tony Brummel. Tony Brummel is a man that cares more about his ego and bank account than the bands themselves.

Many of you are familiar with the greed driven letters sent out by Mr. Brummel: his manifesto calling rock supporters to arms and virtual declaration of war on hip-hop and Ne-Yo done under the guise of a band message; as well as the street-team letter which instructed people to re-arrange our CDs, putting them in higher visibility areas in stores. Unfortunately, the head of street-team, Abby Valentine, who understandably resigned following the incident, took the fall for this. At the time of the letters we were branded as racists by some, all over a letter we did NOT write, targeting a genre which we have NOTHING against whatsoever. Because of these letters, our second album debuted at ..3 on the charts, an incredible feat, which would normally be cause for joy, but now is tainted much like Barry Bonds statistics.

When questioned about the letters Tony was more upset that we had told the press that he actually wrote the letters (not us) because he was more worried about rumors surrounding Taking Back Sunday and Thursdays exoduses being justified than the credibility and reputation of his current biggest band.

Couple these letters with him threatening the head program director at Q101 in Chicago for putting the new Taking Back Sunday song into rotation to the point in which the program director pulls Saying Sorry from rotation and you can see why we would more than question whether or not the head of our label cares about us or his own ego more.

Tony is a man whose greed knows no bounds. After selling more than 1.2 million copies of The Silence In Black and White and If Only You Were Lonely, we have never seen a single dollar in artist royalties from Victory Records. Tony will claim that we have not recouped, a term used by those in the music business which means the label has spent more money in advertising than has been made by CD sales. In fact questionable accounting practices are the culprit and we are in fact owed substantial amounts of money much like audits from Taking Back Sunday, Thursday and Atreyu have uncovered.

You may be wondering, why now? Why did they wait three years before saying something? Why did they sound happy in that interview??? Like being in an abusive relationship, we let certain things slide as we were afraid, as many of the bands on Victory are, to stick our neck out for fear of being beaten, in this case represented by the threat of not being promoted as has been the case with certain bands on the roster. Were done being abused. The reasons stated above represent the final straw in a huge pile of hay that broke our backs.

Undoubtedly Tony will proclaim that we are ungrateful and our success was due solely to his promotional efforts. In reality, promotion is only a portion of the equation in a bands success. Even then, in our case especially, promotional efforts can be attributed to the hard work of the band and staff at Victory, many of whom recently resigned or were fired due to differences with Tony. Non-stop touring, dedicated fans and songs (we challenge Tony to sell over 1 million blank CDs) account for the rest of the equation.

Weve accomplished more in three years than most bands do in a lifetime and for that we are extremely grateful and consider ourselves very fortunate. Our situation with Tony Brummel is indicative of issues that all bands on Victory Records encounter on some level or another.

We have decided to remove ourselves from the negative situation so that we can continue to do what we love best and focus on writing and playing music to people that care about what we have created.

moforn - 8-7-2006 at 08:22 PM

I'm out of the loop, what's the story on the letters that had been sent out?

crazyfists28 - 8-7-2006 at 08:25 PM

no clue, victory used to be cool to me now i have no idea, i remember the likes of snapcase, blood for blood and hatebreed, now i have no idea what emo band is next. i do like bury your dead and the tossers were or maybe still are on there as well

crazyfists28 - 8-7-2006 at 08:26 PM

obviously earth crisis , warzone , and integrity are alumni

moron - 8-7-2006 at 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by moforn
I'm out of the loop, what's the story on the letters that had been sent out?

From what I understand a letter was sent out to kids via the street team asking them to go to their local record store and put the new Hawthorne Heights record in places where it will be noticed better. Not sure if labels have to pay for displays near the door or stuff like that, but it's my guess and that would make that request a pretty bad move for Victory. So, obviously word got out to the press or somebody and Victory tried to back pedal on it.

That's not first hand info just my understanding of the situation.

thedog - 8-7-2006 at 09:07 PM

it seems like alot of bands have had trouble with them.

BKT - 8-7-2006 at 09:23 PM

They were good back in the day:

Blood For Blood
Hoods
Fury Of V
All Ou War
Hatebreed

now those were some good bands and some great albums. Now it is all pussy shit on that lable.

MM.

thedog - 8-7-2006 at 09:27 PM

i could care less about most of their bands.

but they still have....
ringworm
&
the tossers

clevohardcore - 8-7-2006 at 11:15 PM

I have no idea what the dude is talking aobu twith his band. I never heard those records but I have heard alot of shit about hating VICTORY. Most if not all bandds hate being on the label.

hatebreed
ringworm
fury of five
skarhead
integrity
one life crew
donuts
atreyu

all have dissed and trashed Tony B in interviews or word of mouth. That dude must be a total fucking asshole. I know for a fact ringworm has no choice right now, but to stay with them. They want out. I remember hatebreed had a terrible time getting off that label.

clevohardcore - 8-7-2006 at 11:16 PM

A couple of those bands ever credit VICTORY for ruining there bands.

godabandonedme - 8-8-2006 at 12:48 AM

Victory was supposedly the hardcore lable in the mid 90's. Rob Lind from blood for blood basically straight out said that "revenge on society" is a sham of a record. Victory played on the fuck you factor of the band and had them record that record which they all stated they didn't like once or ever. I think Victory basically at that time saw the hot topic years looming and decided to play that card and made a mint on the backs of artists who might not have fully agreed with the final product, but had no say due to monitary issues. Whatever, Victory sucks.

clevohardcore - 8-8-2006 at 09:20 AM

IN COLD BLOOD is another one. Apparently they wanted to do more but decided against it becasue of the label.

thedog - 8-8-2006 at 10:36 AM

i think alot of bands put out stuff on victory that they were not crazy about,
but they had to release it to fullfill there contracts.

i heard this about
blood for blood
skarhead
shutdown

i am sure there was more, but i cant think of any right now.

JawnDiablo - 8-8-2006 at 10:58 AM

at the last sheer terror show paul sent a big "fuck you" out to the people from victory.....

moron - 8-8-2006 at 12:06 PM

I can understand a label wanting to sell cds and make money, but it sounds like Victory has some shady business practices and is working more like a major label now... fucking over bands, etc. A friend of mine who claims to know Scars of Tomorrow said that theyre not happy with Victory for various reasons. Not gonna spread any more rumors other than that though. I do remember Thursday saying how happy they were to be done with Victory though.

I wonder if Tony even likes the bands he signs nowadays. Besides liking the money they bring in, does he really even like the music they play? Im leaning towards "I doubt it"

Voodoobillyman - 8-8-2006 at 12:50 PM

Revenge on Society is, in my opinion, an AMAZING album. Imagine if they had been able to record it the way they wanted..............WOW

JawnDiablo - 8-8-2006 at 01:00 PM

if they had been able to have the production quality of serenity o revenge it woulda rocked

DAK - 8-8-2006 at 01:16 PM

That In Cold Blood cd "Hell On Earth" is bad ass. I wish they would have done more.

Jason the Magnificent - 8-8-2006 at 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by godabandonedme
Victory was supposedly the hardcore lable in the mid 90's. Rob Lind from blood for blood basically straight out said that "revenge on society" is a sham of a record. Victory played on the fuck you factor of the band and had them record that record which they all stated they didn't like once or ever. I think Victory basically at that time saw the hot topic years looming and decided to play that card and made a mint on the backs of artists who might not have fully agreed with the final product, but had no say due to monitary issues. Whatever, Victory sucks.

Thats such a crock, because ROS was B4B's last good album, everything after that is complete garbage. Recycled riffs, recycled topics, Rob quoting old lyrics in every song and white trashing this and white trashing that over and over. After that album the band turned into a total parody of itself.

Jason the Magnificent - 8-8-2006 at 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DAK
That In Cold Blood cd "Hell On Earth" is bad ass. I wish they would have done more.

They did, they have an unreleased EP that A389 is releasing, I have a copy of it from way back but IMO it isnt very good at all. NOTHING like the first disc.

moron - 8-8-2006 at 02:43 PM

Just noticed this on lambgoat...

http://www.lambgoat.com/news/view.aspx?id=7219

Official press release:

Independent Label Group (ILG), composed of Warner Music Group Corp.'s (NYSE: WMG) Asylum Records, East West Records and Cordless Recordings, announced it has acquired a stake in Ferret Music, an entertainment company specializing in metal-based music.

Under the agreement, ILG will work hand in hand with Ferret Music across its various business units, including recorded music, publishing, touring, artist management and merchandising. In addition, ILG will provide full access to its infrastructure, including individualized marketing and promotion services.

ILG's innovative approach to developing artists during every stage of their careers represents a concerted effort by ILG to align the varied functions of a traditional record label with the operations that have until recently been the exclusive domain of integrated management and music promotion firms, like Ferret.

In making the announcement, Todd Moscowitz, President of ILG, said, "For more than 10 years, Ferret Music, under the leadership of Carl Severson and Paul Conroy, has been one of independent music's most innovative companies. Today's investment signals ILG's and WMG's continued commitment to supporting the artists and entrepreneurs of the independent music community. We are confident this partnership will further redefine the way ILG works to empower independent artists and music executives not only in recorded music, but in publishing, touring, artist management and merchandising, as well."

Carl Severson, CEO of Ferret Music, said, "Ferret's new partnership with ILG will enable us to continue to take all our endeavors to the next level. We've worked with artists for the last 10 years on a label or management or touring basis -- growing with them. This is a new step for us that will enable us to step up all our efforts for our bands and present them with even more opportunities. We're building a home that our artists will feel comfortable being a part of for years to come."

Paul Conroy, President of Ferret Music, said, "We are extremely excited about our new partnership with the Independent Label Group. Carl and I have ambitious plans for the development of all of the operating companies within Ferret. While our business model may be far from traditional, ILG wants to empower us with the resources to fulfill our vision. The more time we spent with Todd Moscowitz, the more we realized that, beyond our potential, ILG genuinely respects what we've built. This partnership is not about a hot band on our roster but about us as people. That meant everything. While I expect our business to be elevated to new levels with the help of ILG, I know that the 'spirit' of Ferret will remain fully intact thanks to our like-minded partners."

Current artists signed to Ferret Music in the U.S. include: In Flames, Every Time I Die, A Life Once Lost, Boys Night Out, Maylene and The Sons of Disaster, Madball, Zao and more. In addition, artists such as Killswitch Engage, Converge, and From Autumn To Ashes began their careers on Ferret Music.

Ferret's management company manages a number of artists including Unearth (Metal Blade) who are currently one of the featured acts on Ozzfest 2006's Second Stage and whose next album for Metal Blade is expected to be released on August 8th.

Prior to partnering with Carl Severson at Ferret Music, Paul Conroy managed powerhouse artists including Lamb Of God, Every Time I Die and Eighteen Visions. Ferret is a primary owner and organizer of The Sounds Of The Underground, the national festival tour currently in its second year. Their publishing company, Ferret Music Publishing, has a roster that includes Every Time I Die, A Life Once Lost and more.

In Flames' Ferret Music debut, "Come Clarity," has sold more than 94,000 units in less than six months, according to SoundScan. It has quickly become the largest and most successful release in the group's history. The album's title track, "Come Clarity," was recently remixed by David Bendith and will hit commercial radio this September. The group's Lex Halaby-directed music video is now available as well.

Ferret artists are spending their summers on Ozzfest, Sounds of the Underground and Warped tour, as well as multiple sold out club tours across the U.S. and Canada.

Ferret Publishing artist Every Time I Die will see their new single, "The New Black" featured in game play in the PlayStation game, Guitar Hero 2 due out this fall.

Isn't this the route Victory went? hahaha

JawnDiablo - 8-8-2006 at 04:31 PM

fuck em
none of them will ever have what Thorp has.
the Thorp is the goodness....

random - 8-9-2006 at 12:59 AM

I guess everyone's heard rumors about bands hating Victory. I remember someone telling me that Victory removed all references to a One Life Crew album they put out, since a lot of people got pissed off about some things OLC said on it. Then again, GMM seemed to remove all references to the Stormwatch album they put out... then did the same thing with Condemned 84 after that situation a few years back.

Oh well, so much for my useless contribution.

Discipline - 8-9-2006 at 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juandiablo
fuck em
none of them will ever have what Thorp has.
the Thorp is the goodness....

crazyfists28 - 8-9-2006 at 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason the Magnificent

Quote:

i love outlaw anthems and livin in exile, not the same sound as bfb was but started showing some different song structures, so i guess i say i disagree

gavin - 8-9-2006 at 06:05 PM

i actually like the later blood for blood better than the early stuff

crazyfists28 - 8-9-2006 at 06:15 PM

as much as i hate to say it, serenity is the one that gets the least amount of spins for me overall. but i definitely have songs i like/love from all the albums, thats why they are among my favorite bands of all time.

DaveMoral - 8-9-2006 at 06:51 PM

I'm actually surprised some bands went back to Victory.... I mean, take the much maligned Earth Crisis... they went up to Roadrunner and for whatever reason ended up back on Victory to release their last and worst album. I'm shocked that those dudes went back to Freya shit and Path of Resistance shit. I wonder if Tony signed them to do a load of albums for ExC and somehow managed to roll it over into other projects members of ExC are involved in. Either that, or they are one of the few acts that Tony deals straight with.

MyOwnWay - 8-9-2006 at 06:56 PM

Back story on HH.

Victory sent an email to its street team kids the day HH album hit, and asked them to put HH CDs in front of Neyo (R&B/HIP HOP - Def Jam) CDs. Hiding the Neyo CDs in other area of the store whenever possible. Word got out that this email occured and DefJam/Island threatened a law suit. Victory press release stated it was a joke and nothing was meant buy it (I call bullshit). Tony denied any involvement and put all heat on the street team leader at the time (who since resigned over the incident, stating it was not his doing).

Blood For Blood.

Its all a matter of opinion but I feel their peek was Livin In Exile. Outlaw Anthems I can see where the re-used themes and re-used lyrics come from. I think LIE and Serenity were solid albums and good Hardcore records overall. I dont care for early BFB record. I think it took Rob sometime to find the right voice for him. On the 'Hurt You' demo he actually sounds a lot like Buddha. LIE was definitely their peek. And I'd like to see another release come out to try and top it.

Ferret partnering with LIG.

Carl does what is in his best interest for Ferret and the artists. I am very certain his heart is pure in this decision. Although I dont like the idea (personally) of Indies partnering with major label outfits. It spells bad news and has always spelled bad news, again, in my opinion.

Jason the Magnificent - 8-9-2006 at 07:17 PM

I don't know, when I started listening to B4B they were a band...and slowly over the years they ceased being a band and started being the White Trash Rob show. Coincidentaly the more he was in the spotlight the more he liked "his" records himself.

newbreedbrian - 8-9-2006 at 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBadVibes
i actually like the later blood for blood better than the early stuff

Six66Mike - 8-9-2006 at 11:29 PM

Good Clean Fun sang years ago that Victory records sucks and they were right haha.

Without Snapcase getting me started into hardcore & the Victory catalogue in the 90s who knows where I would be. I got 90% of every Victory releases in the 90s. Got all the Blood For Blood, In Cold Blood, Earth Crisis, Snapcase, Strife etc because the bands on the label in the 90s rocked.

When they signed Thursday & Taking Back Sunday I knew the label was finished, they fucking suck now. They manage to sign a good band still like Ringworm & Darkest Hour still slays but Tony sounds like a dochebag and its been said for years.

clevohardcore - 8-10-2006 at 03:29 AM

SNAPCASE, STRIFE
and EARTH CRISIS are the only bands that gave props till the end to VICTORY.

CR83 - 8-10-2006 at 10:21 AM

Livin' in Exile and Outlaw Anthems are the most memorable for me. Maybe because I was totalyl into music at the time and drank a lot. I don't know. But those two albums still get me going. Livin' in Exile is a great album to listen to when I'm jogging.