VICTORY v. HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS update

BDx13 - 3-8-2007 at 03:41 PM

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_...

Hawthorne Heights Wins Partial Legal Victory
March 06, 2007, 5:45 PM ET
Susan Butler, N.Y.

A federal judge in Chicago handed Hawthorne Heights a partial victory over Victory Records yesterday (March 5). Judge James Moran held that Victory does not hold exclusive rights for the band's recording services. Simply put, it means the band can record for any label.

Band members Eron Bucciarelli-Tieger, Casey Calvert, Micah Carli, Matt Ridenour and JT Woodruff sued Victory and label head Tony Brummel last August. They claimed that Brummel's "tactics" and "scheming" severely damaged the band's reputation and its relationship with fans.

Among other things, the band asked the court to declare that their recording contract with Victory was non-exclusive so they could record for any label, and to declare that the band members -- not Victory -- own the copyrights in their first two albums.

Victory fought back, suing Virgin Records and EMI Music North America, which allegedly signed the band. Victory claimed that the major label wrongfully interfered with its contractual relationship with Hawthorne Heights. The indie label alleged that the major label "poached" the band from Victory even though the group still had two more records to deliver under its contract.

Then, Victory filed a motion in the suit brought by the band members, trying to dismiss their complaint. Victory argued that the recording contract was still binding and required the band to record exclusively for the label.

In yesterday's ruling, the court held that the contract does not give Victory the right to the band's exclusive recording services. "The agreement contains no exclusivity provision, nor does any of its language appear to prevent [the band] from recording elsewhere during the life of the agreement," the judge wrote.

Although the contract was written clearly enough for the court to rule on it, other claims required additional evidence, the court said. So the court refused to dismiss or rule on claims about copyright ownership of the recordings, trademark infringement and invasion of privacy. However, the court dismissed the band's claim for fraud, among others.

clevohardcore - 3-8-2007 at 08:32 PM

Wow. SO pretty much nothign was accomplished? They ruled in the bands favor but did not elaborate on the copywritten songs?

Six66Mike - 3-8-2007 at 10:56 PM

haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money.

joe - 3-8-2007 at 11:10 PM

fuck victory. this sucks to say i use to be a huge fan

Muttley - 3-9-2007 at 12:45 AM

Tony has done this so many times with so many bands.... even if they get off I'm sure he'll find a way to get a lot of cash out of the deal... he did it with Hatebreed, Boysetsfire and a few more I can't think of right now. He's a ridiculously tough businessman.

Quote:

Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money.

Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think.

clevohardcore - 3-9-2007 at 12:51 AM

What the hell does Tony Brummell look like? Seriously I never saw a picture of him before. Is he even a real person? Its almost like he is a walking letter V.

BDx13 - 3-9-2007 at 01:09 AM

CR83 - 3-9-2007 at 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Muttley
Tony has done this so many times with so many bands.... even if they get off I'm sure he'll find a way to get a lot of cash out of the deal... he did it with Hatebreed, Boysetsfire and a few more I can't think of right now. He's a ridiculously tough businessman.

Quote:

Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money.

Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think.

What did he get in the "hatebreed deal"?

JawnDiablo - 3-9-2007 at 06:45 AM

Paul Bearer was cussing him out onstage when I saw the last sheer terror show in 04

Muttley - 3-9-2007 at 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisReed83

Quote:

Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money.

Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think.

What did he get in the "hatebreed deal"?

Hatebreed wanted out (like most Victory bands do) and he wouldn't let them go unless he got a serious dollar figure out of the deal. And he did. I don't remember the number but it was significant. It had to be, otherwise he never would have let the deal happen. And I'm pretty sure the first record on Universal had the Victory logo on it too.

He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War.

JUICE MAYNE MSHC - 3-9-2007 at 11:42 AM

Quote:

He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War.

or Ringworm

Discipline - 3-9-2007 at 02:16 PM

What a cunt.

It's like back in the day when he didn't want to pay Integrity any of the profits from their first 7".

BDx13 - 3-9-2007 at 02:21 PM

did jamey get support to buy back his contract? i was under the impression he did it himself. but that's going back to what i heard at the time, so there's not a lot of substance behind that. either way, it worked out well for him.

clevohardcore - 3-9-2007 at 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JUICE MAYNE MSHC

Quote:

He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War.

or Ringworm

^^^^^^^^ unless your O.L.C then he will drop you like a fat heffer.

clevohardcore - 3-9-2007 at 03:19 PM

Ya i heard Jasta paid up the money himself. It was like 200k or something. He had to do a loan. I know nothing but it would be cool to find out.

JUICE MAYNE MSHC - 3-9-2007 at 04:48 PM

Ringworm should put "Pure Disgust" on their new album so they'll get dropped

clevohardcore - 3-9-2007 at 05:06 PM

What I don't get is why would a band sign for a long term with him when he has that reputation?

I mean seriously. Signa 1 or 2 record deal and be done with it. I understnad when a band is not huge right away, but why sign your life away right off the bat.

upyerbum - 3-9-2007 at 05:36 PM

This isn't punk. Very unpunk. When did money enter into punk? Fuck Victory Records.

Jason the Magnificent - 3-9-2007 at 05:49 PM

People sign with him for those long contratcs because thats all he does. When you're in a band thats going nowhere and you have some guy offering you the world ...in relative indie terms...odds are you're going to chance it. The when by some some chance you get a good following you have to pay the price.

The better story is how he got his nickname "soapy jack"

BDx13 - 3-9-2007 at 06:24 PM

exactly. for most bands, signing with victory is a significant bump in their career and any cons are quickly outweighed by the pros.

his business is run like a machine, and any band that gets put through that machine is almost guaranteed to sell X number of cds. and by signing a band for multiple albums, they get put through the machine multiple times, selling more and more each time.

all i'm sayin is, the guy knows how to make some money.

crazyfists28 - 3-9-2007 at 06:32 PM

its a business and businesses are supposed to make money so if you dont want to be part of the business, put the album out on your own or find another way.

Muttley - 3-10-2007 at 02:29 AM

To go along with the last couple of posts on here, I gotta say that if you're in a band and you sign that deal, you've gotta know what you're getting into. I've heard that Tony does things to piss bands off (like promo whoopie cushions) but when you sign the deal that's the kind of shit that can happen. He definitely gets you on some tours if you play your cards right, and a lot of his bands have really blown up big internationally. The stories are out there about him, so it's pretty much a sign at your own risk thing.

It's really not all that much different from what a label like Roadrunner does... long term deal and they usually take over your merch too. Maybe they're not quite as dickish about it @ Roadrunner, but it's still pretty much the same shit.

I don't know if Tony does this, but Roadrunner signs each individual member of the band to their own contract. If you quit the band, they still get first crack on anything new you put together.

Having worked for labels and distributors PLUS been in bands for years, I've seen a lot of stupid shit happen. And I have to say that Tony was always cool to me when I dealt with him (I used to work for Red, their distributor). I've seen him be a dick at times, but to me it was always him being a shrewd businessman... the asshole tends to make more money than the nice guy. The music biz is some real cutthroat shit.

By the way, anybody own that "Victory Porno"?

clevohardcore - 3-10-2007 at 11:54 AM

Victory porno? I heard of this a while back. What is that about?

Also I aint dissin his ethics. I mean a business is a business but as a band you ahve to watch your back a bit. NOt to say cut your throat and NOT sign with Victory if the offer is there but know what your getting into and not signing your rights as a person in a band away. CHECKS AND BALANCES between label and band.

clevohardcore - 3-10-2007 at 11:55 AM

It must have been pretty sweet for Tony back in the early 90's when everyone was up his ass to be on that label.

Jason the Magnificent - 3-10-2007 at 12:03 PM

He was a douche then too. Like the little dog that chased Spike around in the Tom and Jerry cartoons.

"whats up kid!"-ing everyone he saw, hanging out in bathrooms around people smoking blunts because he "liked the smell", getting shook down for free beers from people, getting caught jerking off in the bathroom with hand soap for lube...total stroke.

dannynsk - 3-10-2007 at 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
Ya i heard Jasta paid up the money himself. It was like 200k or something. He had to do a loan. I know nothing but it would be cool to find out.

Actually Hulk Hogan did, hence the birth of Hulkbreed!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/dannynsk/hulkbreedgro...

Muttley - 3-10-2007 at 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
It must have been pretty sweet for Tony back in the early 90's when everyone was up his ass to be on that label.

Early 90's? Despite whatever drama we're talking about, I'll bet cash money he's got WAY more bands on his dick right now than anytime in the 90's.

Sure a lot of them may be of the tight pants & eyeliner type, but why discriminate?