Thorp and Sailor's Grave Board

Is 'Hardcore' a musical genre or an attitude that a bunch of different bands carry?

XHonusWagnerX - 3-27-2007 at 11:42 AM

This could be an endless debate, but Ive been listening to a bunch of stuff on my iPod the last 2 weeks and I guess that most of it would be considered 'Hardcore' even though a bunch of the bands have almost nothing in common. For example....

Supertouch
The Banner
Skarhead
Negative Approach
Bad Brains
The Bars
Black Flag
Gorilla Biscuits
Dropdead

Voodoobillyman - 3-27-2007 at 12:00 PM

Thats because the word "hardcore" has been used as much as any old whores twat. It's just about as dirty and worthless too.

BKT - 3-27-2007 at 12:41 PM

Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?

MM.

Voodoobillyman - 3-27-2007 at 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?

MM.


Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal. That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.

XHonusWagnerX - 3-27-2007 at 01:03 PM

I dont really hate anything... well actually I hate most things, but I do like a little bit of everything. I like some 'thug' stuff like One Life Crew and a little Skarhead now and then. I just like the older bands better.

gavin - 3-27-2007 at 02:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?

MM.


Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal. That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.



agreed
most of the stuff MM posts that he likes is not what i think of as hardcore
i aint knockin dude
i just dont think its anything but bad metal

Siczine.com - 3-27-2007 at 03:38 PM

so bands like Integrity that were a part of the hardcore scene but are more metal influenced aren't hardcore right? Are they metal or metalcore?

Hardcore is supposed to be an attitude/lifestyle moreso than an actual "sound" perse, at least it was supposed to be.

ENDERA.x - 3-27-2007 at 03:54 PM

Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.

You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc

You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc

You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc

You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc

its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so


I do believe though that Hardcore is a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.


The message might be slightly different, but I believe the principles remain the same, or very similiar.

If there is no emphasis are unity and friendship, dedication and respect,. then it's not hardcore in that respect. Because it might be with a sound, but not with the lifestyle to it.

CR83 - 3-27-2007 at 04:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.

You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc

You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc

You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc

You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc

its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so


I do believe though that Hardcore as a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.


Very well put

BKT - 3-27-2007 at 04:12 PM

Endra that was a great post.

I think a lot of you need to hang up the boots and move on. (To quote one of your shitty old school bands) Hardcore has always been about an attitude and way of life. I would go so far to say that that is more important than the music itself. Shit changes, new people get involved and there is always going to be a evolution from what was the original style. Thank God for that, it keeps things from becoming stale and boring. Metal has been part of hardcore from day one. AF and Leeway were about as metal as you can get.

Now hip hop has come into the mix as well and has turned out some great bands in my opinion. Boxcutter, Vietnom, E-Town are just as much hardcore as Blood for Blood, Aganostic Front and Black Flag. You think some of that is shit and I think Black Flag is shit, big deal, but that does not change the fact that it is all hardcore and I can appreciate all of it. Except change or move on, its the way of the world.

MM.

Voodoobillyman - 3-27-2007 at 04:21 PM

Beleive me, I have not involved myself with the "hardcore scene" for quite some time. I find myself listening to alot of older stuff and finding recent shit worth listening to very sparingly. I still have alot of love for the bands I do listen to and would go see a show once in a blue moon if it had a real good bill line up. I'm a husband and a dad now so I've lost my passion for keeping up with it and I can't stand the de-evolution of the music within it for the most part. I come here for the stimulating conversation, not the "scene".

Discipline - 3-27-2007 at 05:00 PM

I don't think the old timers need to hang up their boots, so much as I think a lot of the kids should call their shit something different, as what a lot of people call hardcore these days has nothing to do with what the scene was supposed to be about. If all these kids want to have their bands and scene and whatnot, that's fine. But they shouldn't try to associate what they like with an established genre. Call it something new, cause it's not hardcore.

upyerbum - 3-27-2007 at 05:04 PM

Its all just varying degrees of skinhead culture anyway (hip-hop included) so everyone just be skinheads get drunk and shut the fuck up.
:cool:

JawnDiablo - 3-27-2007 at 05:14 PM

hardcore is smoking PCP and listening to Venom

DaveMoral - 3-27-2007 at 05:37 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by MrBadVibes
Quote:
Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?

MM.


Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal. That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.



agreed
most of the stuff MM posts that he likes is not what i think of as hardcore
i aint knockin dude
i just dont think its anything but bad metal


Though I agree with alot of what Endera had to say, I do think there's alot of shit that's departed so far from the spirit of hardcore that it shouldn't be considered part of the scene/movement even if it sounds the same as alot of hardcore bands and follows similar structures.

JawnDiablo - 3-27-2007 at 05:58 PM

this whole debate is kind of becoming a parody of itself....

Discipline - 3-27-2007 at 06:06 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by upyerbum
Its all just varying degrees of skinhead culture anyway (hip-hop included) so everyone just be skinheads get drunk and shut the fuck up.
:cool:


Exactly

tireironsaint - 3-27-2007 at 06:45 PM

As far as the original topic of this thread, Hard Core originally was an attitude not a sound. Sure there were some similarities in terms of energy, ideas, aggression and what have you, but you had such diverse sounds under the banner of Hard Core Punk. There were more regional sounds, but even within that there were huge differences.

Go back and check out a bunch of the old regional compilations and see how different they sound from one band to the next. Check out the old Texas HC comp, Cottage Cheese From The Lips Of Death and tell me if any of those bands really sound alike. They sure as fuck don't sound like they could be the same band with a different vocalist like the vast majority of the bands claiming HC nowadays. Even bands with the same ideology from the same locale had very different sounds, take Boston Straight Edge for example. There's SS Decontrol, Slapshot, and DYS, all with very distinct styles and sounds even though they came from a fairly small section of the overall scene. Fuck, some of them even shared a member and I don't think anyone who knows HC at all would ever mistake them for each other.

From a wider view, you've got bands as musically disparate as The Big Boys, Jerry's Kids, DRI, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Angry Samoans, Husker Du, Naked Raygun, Dead Kennedys, and thousands of others all under the same genre name. Is that because they sound alike? Fuck no. They carried a set of beliefs that shared some commonalities that were enough on the outside of the mainstream to link them all together. Does that really exist today? I don't think so, at least not under the banner of HC, not in the way it did anyway. Sure, there are still some bands playing styles reminiscent of what it used to be, there are even a lot of people who still believe in the ideals that were grouped under the banner of HC back then, but by and large the people who follow those ideals are absolutely not a part of what is generally called the "hardcore scene" today.

Most of the people who involve themselves in that group appear to be there looking for bands that have that common sound that to my ear is just metal with lots of break downs and "mosh parts", the occasional hip hop or rap influence creeping in to mix things up. Even the bands that supposedly follow some ideology that grew out of the old HC movement have next to nothing in common with what those ideas were originally about. Take a look at the current SxE scene for a perfect example of what I mean by that.

As far as any of us "hanging up our boots", FUCK YOU. Hard Core separated itself from Punk Rock while still being a part of it in the big picture by calling itself Hard Core Punk, later shortened to just Hard Core. Why is it so difficult for this shit being played today to find a name for itself? It's got only the most tenuous link to what really is Hard Core, so it would make a lot more sense and cause a lot less problems for everyone involved on both sides if it could just have the balls to quit trying to call itself by a name it doesn't deserve. I can't count the times I've either been in or just witnessed debates about whether certain old bands wer HC or Punk because the line there is narrow, yet with such a glaring difference between what really is HC and what claims to be today it would make that much more sense for the music flying that false flag to go ahead and find it's own name. So yeah MM, you think we should get out of "your scene", we think your scene should stop using the name of something it could never be good enough to polish the boots of, so there's our (or at least MY) side of the story.

Siczine.com - 3-27-2007 at 06:58 PM

Lets break it down into more subgenres. Fuck hardcore, we'll call it hardcore punk or hardcore metal.

DaveMoral - 3-27-2007 at 08:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by juandiablo
this whole debate is kind of becoming a parody of itself....


Just like hardcore in general...*rimshot*

XHonusWagnerX - 3-27-2007 at 08:16 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha

I think a lot of you need to hang up the boots and move on. (To quote one of your shitty old school bands)

I think Black Flag is shit



OUCH! That hurts.... :(

upyerbum - 3-27-2007 at 08:34 PM

Why not just get it over with and call it BreakDown. Thats all any of em wanna hear anyway.

JawnDiablo - 3-27-2007 at 08:43 PM

german porn is pretty hardcore

ENDERA.x - 3-27-2007 at 09:22 PM

LOL ^

french porn is way worse

upyerbum - 3-27-2007 at 10:34 PM

If your watching German porn you can be sure that at some point someone is getting shit on.

newbreedbrian - 3-27-2007 at 11:33 PM

Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and "punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class, Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.

ENDERA.x - 3-27-2007 at 11:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by newbreedbrian
Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and "punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class, Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.




The only thing here I don't agree with is the pretending to be a black gangster bit. Thats just ridiculous.

Six66Mike - 3-27-2007 at 11:38 PM

I don't even try to categorize my music anymore so the Genre field in my ID3 tags is generally empty.

Hardcore now is just an umbrella term like metal. There's black, death, speed, thrash etc genres within metal, and hardcore is now the same. There's posi, old skool, thug, beatdown etc but it all falls under the Hardcore umbrella.

ENDERA.x - 3-27-2007 at 11:42 PM

"the hardcore umbrella",

"a short short story by" uber mike.

for fans of: ID3 coders



lol

beaner - 3-28-2007 at 04:29 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ChrisReed83
Quote:
Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.

You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc

You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc

You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc


i second that. very very well put. its exactly as i feel.

You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc

its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so


I do believe though that Hardcore as a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.


Very well put

Discipline - 3-28-2007 at 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Quote:
Originally posted by newbreedbrian
Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and "punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class, Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.




The only thing here I don't agree with is the pretending to be a black gangster bit. Thats just ridiculous.


Not really. A lot of the so-called "thugs" in the hardcore scene look like they've seen too many hip hop videos. Jimmy Gestapo grew up in Queens, you don't see him all thugged out. Roger Miret grew up in the same place as all the DMS guys, do you see him acting like he's a thug? No.

ENDERA.x - 3-28-2007 at 02:12 PM

So I guess all the guys in TERROR and Countime and all are pretending to be black eh? (i'm jus fuckin with you but I would like to here what you say about that)

It's ridiculous. I won't deny that there are some people out there that want to follow the "black" urban fashion, but it's not only them that dress that way its just how we associate it. It's URBAN. Whoever dresses that way it's their thing, spanish gangsters dress the same way and they hate the blacks. So because they look like that they are pretending to be black too? You have to look more into this and not just assume because someone looks like that they are trying to be black, come on I made ignorant judgments like that when I was 15. Saying that rap is gay hiphop is gay pull up your pants whatever.... then I grew up and said fuck it. Who cares. It's just fashion. NOW if those people you see in the hardcore scene come up to you and say Yo man whuttup G whats poppin yo then punch them in the face. I know some people from the Detroit/Windsor scene and they may look like they only listen to hiphop but whats the shirt they are wearing none only than a very good hardcore band that no common black man or thug would even know about. Just because they are in hardcore or know what it is to me tells me enough to know or at least happily assume they aren't as ignorant as your common person pretending to be black... seriously. Get off it. You don't like how they look, doesn't mean that its confined to blacks only. Fuck!

I live in an area thats 40% black, 30% brown, 20% asian 5% white and 5% other. I see it all...

But I will give you this, where you go to shows, there may very well be someone there that wants to replicate the black image, but try talking to them first, and see what they are about. And I don't want to hear you say "im not going to talk to someone who looks like that" because then you should be no better than a nazi. Sorry. Then come back to me and say what the outcome was.

Fashion means nothing to me, but everything to some, I know this. It shouldn't matter to you. And saying those guys (Jimmy Gestapo, Roger Miret) came from the ghetto doesn't mean they have to dress like that urban style, very well, I come from the ghetto and I don't look like that either. Do Danny Diablo and most of the DMS guys think they are black? How about the BFL dudes? I don't think so. You obviously just have a dislike for the fashion style and are judging everyone that looks like that or at least the ones you've seen at shows as wanting to be black. Get over it.

I can safely do that here on the street, but at a show, I wouldn't assume that just because the look different or fit another common fashion style.


-----------


Now getting back on track with the topic instead of this mass digression a submit a repost of the following:

Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.

You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc

You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc

You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc

You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc

its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so


I do believe though that Hardcore is a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.


The message might be slightly different, but I believe the principles remain the same, or very similiar.

If there is no emphasis are unity and friendship, dedication and respect,. then it's not hardcore in that respect. Because it might be with a sound, but not with the lifestyle to it.

Discipline - 3-28-2007 at 03:59 PM

My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.

My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough. They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.

When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about. It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.

That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.

upyerbum - 3-28-2007 at 04:38 PM

Thug, gangsta, rap, all that shit sucks, DMS has fuck all to do with hardcore (DMS Travel is a case in point), but the question is, if this shit is taking over your scene, what are you doing about it? Talk-Action=0.

DaveMoral - 3-28-2007 at 06:30 PM

The east coast is pretty much lost to hardcore then... real hardcore I mean. The shit is overrun with real gangsters and fakes too. I was just listening to Runnin' Riot from Ireland today... and I was thinking, so much Oi is ten times harder than most shit that comes out of the hardcore scene that's trying to be "hard" and since fuckin' when did "hard" mean you have to tune your fucking guitar down to like C and do double bass rolls all over the place and then beat the living shit out of a your crash cymbals? I like some that shit, but goddamn it it's old as hell now that everyone is doing Hatebreed 10.0 over and over and over again. Shit, even Hatebreed aren't as good as they once were... too many of the same riffs over and over and over again.

It's those motherfuckers than need to hang it up. I liked some early Sworn Enemy and then they just become the umpteenth Slayer clone from the hardcore scene. I mean, seriously, when's it going to end?

Hardcore bands take themselves so goddamned seriously these days that the fun's sucked right out of it... even the so-called "posi" bands take themselves so serious. You know who's a tight "beatdown" type band? North Side Kings, you know why? Because it's so tongue-in-cheek I can't help but crack up everytime I listen to them. That's a good chunk of what hardcore's all about!

Discipline - 3-28-2007 at 07:09 PM

I'm with Dave on this one. NSK fucking rule.

newbreedbrian - 3-28-2007 at 11:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.

My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough. They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.

When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about. It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.

That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.


exactly. couldn't have said it better. and i see enough white kids from the suburbs pretending they're black kids from the ghetto on a day to day basis outside "the scene". i don't need to see it here too. and enough " i grew up in relative affluence but i moved to a poor neighborhood when i was 20 for the cheap rent, so now i'm hard and down". pfft....i live in the same shithole neighborhood i grew up in and i feel zero need to think that makes me hard or gangsta. thugcore and all it's bull shit contrived lyrics and image is retarded. mike is right, real hard men have no need to tell you, you'll find out if you fuck around. and all that money and bitches shit is fucking stupid. it's been dragging down hip hop for years and now doing the same with hardcore. being proud of pretending to talk like you can't speak english is stupid. and once again hardcore was defined from 78-86. anyone who "hates that old shit" doesn't get it and never will. come up with a new name for the current pile of shit already.

Voodoobillyman - 3-29-2007 at 08:14 AM

I like NSK

JawnDiablo - 3-29-2007 at 08:58 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
I'm with Dave on this one. NSK fucking rule.



oh hell yeah
NSK blow away most of the bands in the genre.
I can't wait for the new CD

JawnDiablo - 3-29-2007 at 08:59 AM

One time, years ago, I played the first Black Sabbath record at 78 speed. I saw god. That was pretty hardcore if I must say so myself.

ENDERA.x - 3-29-2007 at 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Discipline
My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.

My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough. They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.

When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about. It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.

That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.



I agree.
and DD annoys the fuck out of me to be honest.

And people like that at that show are fucking morons to begin with for sure I see that shit allll the time and it pisses me off.

And, about the real being the ones that don't show off their shit all the time, thats also very true.

They don't need to boast about their shit that mostly means that they are fake. But not always. They just like to show it off.

ENDERA.x - 3-29-2007 at 01:01 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
I liked some early Sworn Enemy and then they just become the umpteenth Slayer clone from the hardcore scene. I mean, seriously, when's it going to end?

Hardcore bands take themselves so goddamned seriously these days that the fun's sucked right out of it... even the so-called "posi" bands take themselves so serious.



^^ :) yep.

ENDERA.x - 3-29-2007 at 01:03 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by newbreedbrian

exactly. couldn't have said it better. and i see enough white kids from the suburbs pretending they're black kids from the ghetto on a day to day basis outside "the scene". i don't need to see it here too. and enough " i grew up in relative affluence but i moved to a poor neighborhood when i was 20 for the cheap rent, so now i'm hard and down". pfft....i live in the same shithole neighborhood i grew up in and i feel zero need to think that makes me hard or gangsta. thugcore and all it's bull shit contrived lyrics and image is retarded. mike is right, real hard men have no need to tell you, you'll find out if you fuck around. and all that money and bitches shit is fucking stupid. it's been dragging down hip hop for years and now doing the same with hardcore. being proud of pretending to talk like you can't speak english is stupid. and once again hardcore was defined from 78-86. anyone who "hates that old shit" doesn't get it and never will. come up with a new name for the current pile of shit already.



i still have yet to see any of these types at hardcore shows. at least not here. and this pathetic city is full of people like that. they don't have a clue what hardcore is and wouldn't be caught dead at a "rock" concert.


anyway,

the scene here has always been dead to me too. any hardcore bands from here are all posi - youth crew bands wanting to sound old school and all sound the same to be and are fake for the most part. i realized that in the first year i went to shows here. and they didn't like me because i liked more styles of music and came from a different background and lifestyle that they did. pathetic. stood my ground - and now I do things my way here and I'm happy with it. I do my shows with my friends. and I've watched most of those people fall out enitrely, they being the ones that talked the most shit and acted like they had been around forever.

but thats toronto for you...

DaveMoral - 3-29-2007 at 06:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ENDERA.x I do things my way here and I'm happy with it. I do my shows with my friends.


Now that's hardcore!

BKT - 3-29-2007 at 11:02 PM

There have not been good hardcore shows in Toronto for years. I remember seeing bands like All Out War, The Hoods, Madball, Mushmouth, No Retreat, Day Of Mourning, Pitboss 2000, Skarhead, and so on back in the day. There were some greatshows here. The scene has always been filled with pussies though, but way back some great shows came through Toronto.

MM.

ENDERA.x - 3-30-2007 at 01:55 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha
There have not been good hardcore shows in Toronto for years. I remember seeing bands like All Out War, The Hoods, Madball, Mushmouth, No Retreat, Day Of Mourning, Pitboss 2000, Skarhead, and so on back in the day. There were some greatshows here. The scene has always been filled with pussies though, but way back some great shows came through Toronto.

MM.


Oh, indeed.
Fudd actually recently called it quits, doesn't want to be in any more bands. Says its time to move on :/ which is unfortunate, but with the luck hes had in his last few bands the members couldn't keep it together for more than 2 years.

I wish there were still shows like that here, I mean, I could do em' but who would come. Hardly anybody. It would still be worth it to me though.

I remember not that long ago actually, Vietnom came, and I was suprised at the turnout, it wasn't alot by any means but at least more than I had expected. They played with In Time which I thought was odd, a forward thinkin posi band that I love from here. The other bands were Pray For Death who were just comin out then, and, Fate 2 Hate I believe were fucking amazing, and some other band I can't even remember who at this point. But that was one of the best shows' for me in Toronto. And there were about three people in total dancin it up during parts of the sets. I was all about it. Even that you don't get here anymore.

Sworn enemy, three years ago, 20-30 kids would come out, it was amazing., but now, still only 20-40 kids come out, and its all numetal faggots. Fuck THAT shit. I doubt I wanna see them again at all and its been like this for a while now.

Ugh..
but fuck I'm on a roll this week with posts.

Time for bed its 2am. Nite ya'll

DaveMoral - 3-30-2007 at 10:39 AM

Fate 2 Hate was tight. Union Made is even better.

Discipline - 3-30-2007 at 11:49 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DaveMoral
Fate 2 Hate was tight. Union Made is even better.


Definitely. Union Made are cool guys. I met them when I saw them open for AF. Great fucking band.

ENDERA.x - 3-30-2007 at 02:04 PM

Yes union made!

Six66Mike - 3-30-2007 at 06:26 PM

Wasn't Vietnom at Kathedral with Rag Men & A Taste For Blood?

Sworn Enemy headline at Rockit with A Taste For Blood & Alwaus Die Fighting, that was bad lol. "Do you wanna hear am old one?" *silence* "come on who wants to hear IDS?" *silence* "ok fuck you then we'll play a new one".

ENDERA.x - 3-31-2007 at 02:57 AM

they played IDS and enough people went off

but i specifically remember rob bergin losing his shit for some reason

why i dont know..

barc0debaby - 3-31-2007 at 10:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by juandiablo
hardcore is smoking PCP and listening to Venom

Man I miss being 16. Look out beware when the full moons high and bright

BKT - 4-1-2007 at 02:30 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Quote:
Originally posted by metal mulisha
There have not been good hardcore shows in Toronto for years. I remember seeing bands like All Out War, The Hoods, Madball, Mushmouth, No Retreat, Day Of Mourning, Pitboss 2000, Skarhead, and so on back in the day. There were some greatshows here. The scene has always been filled with pussies though, but way back some great shows came through Toronto.

MM.


Oh, indeed.
Fudd actually recently called it quits, doesn't want to be in any more bands. Says its time to move on :/ which is unfortunate, but with the luck hes had in his last few bands the members couldn't keep it together for more than 2 years.

I wish there were still shows like that here, I mean, I could do em' but who would come. Hardly anybody. It would still be worth it to me though.

I remember not that long ago actually, Vietnom came, and I was suprised at the turnout, it wasn't alot by any means but at least more than I had expected. They played with In Time which I thought was odd, a forward thinkin posi band that I love from here. The other bands were Pray For Death who were just comin out then, and, Fate 2 Hate I believe were fucking amazing, and some other band I can't even remember who at this point. But that was one of the best shows' for me in Toronto. And there were about three people in total dancin it up during parts of the sets. I was all about it. Even that you don't get here anymore.

Sworn enemy, three years ago, 20-30 kids would come out, it was amazing., but now, still only 20-40 kids come out, and its all numetal faggots. Fuck THAT shit. I doubt I wanna see them again at all and its been like this for a while now.

Ugh..
but fuck I'm on a roll this week with posts.

Time for bed its 2am. Nite ya'll


Ya that Vietnom show as really good. I love them, i could be the only guy in the room and would have fun at their shows.

MM.