Thorp and Sailor's Grave Board

Freakonomics

Murk - 11-4-2007 at 08:46 PM

anybody else read this?

i just finished it and it's a very good read.

Quote:
Economics is not widely considered to be one of the sexier sciences. The annual Nobel Prize winner in that field never receives as much publicity as his or her compatriots in peace, literature, or physics. But if such slights are based on the notion that economics is dull, or that economists are concerned only with finance itself, Steven D. Levitt will change some minds.

In Freakonomics (written with Stephen J. Dubner), Levitt argues that many apparent mysteries of everyday life don't need to be so mysterious: they could be illuminated and made even more fascinating by asking the right questions and drawing connections.

For example, Levitt traces the drop in violent crime rates to a drop in violent criminals and, digging further, to the Roe v. Wade decision that preempted the existence of some people who would be born to poverty and hardship. Elsewhere, by analyzing data gathered from inner-city Chicago drug-dealing gangs, Levitt outlines a corporate structure much like McDonald's, where the top bosses make great money while scores of underlings make something below minimum wage.

And in a section that may alarm or relieve worried parents, Levitt argues that parenting methods don't really matter much and that a backyard swimming pool is much more dangerous than a gun. These enlightening chapters are separated by effusive passages from Dubner's 2003 profile of Levitt in The New York Times Magazine, which led to the book being written.

In a book filled with bold logic, such back-patting veers Freakonomics, however briefly, away from what Levitt actually has to say. Although maybe there's a good economic reason for that too, and we're just not getting it yet. --John Moe --This text refers to the Roughcut edition.


Freakonomics

this book ruffles many a folk's feathers because it asks the question, "What can be proven?" and holds the answers to that question higher than conventional wisdom, urban legends, accepted traditional knowledge, received reality and popular opinion.

that in itself makes many people very uncomfortable.

proceed with caution.

random - 11-5-2007 at 12:14 AM

I've read the book. It's entertaining and makes you think a bit, but I feel like they really dumbed down Levitt's work... but Levitt is just as guilty of missing the obvious as the people he criticizes. Like how he has the part about "Why do crack dealer's live with their mothers?" and asks why the lowest-level crack dealers would risk their lives to make below minimum wage instead of getting minimum-wage jobs. But if you go to Levitt's academic paper (and he seems to miss this point), about 50% of the gang members have legitimate jobs (like working in fast-food restaurants) while only about 40% of the non-gang members have legitimate jobs. What's this mean??? It means the gang members are more likely to be employed in the legitimate job sector than the rest of their community.

Murk - 11-5-2007 at 01:30 AM

Like how he has the part about "Why do crack dealer's live with their mothers?" and asks why the lowest-level crack dealers would risk their lives to make below minimum wage instead of getting minimum-wage jobs.

it sounds like you're paraphrasing with slight error.

i don't remember him asking your "2nd question" the way you have it worded.

in fact, in Venkatesh's study, the book flat out says that most of "JT's" foot soldiers had legit jobs, so i'm a bit confused.

But if you go to Levitt's academic paper

can it be viewed online?

random - 11-5-2007 at 02:41 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Murk
it sounds like you're paraphrasing with slight error.

i don't remember him asking your "2nd question" the way you have it worded.


The second one may be paraphrasing, but I think it's fairly accurate. Maybe not from the book, but I've seen a few of Levitt's media interviews and a few of his lectures where I think he does present the issue that way.

Quote:

in fact, in Venkatesh's study, the book flat out says that most of "JT's" foot soldiers had legit jobs, so i'm a bit confused.

See below.
Quote:
Quote:
But if you go to Levitt's academic paper


can it be viewed online?


It's online here

I don't recall the numbers that the book throws out there. From the paper in the link, I double-checked to get these...

On pg 759, 35% unemployed and 40% "not in labor force". For census numbers, unemployed means no job and looking for one, while "not in labor force" means not looking (if I remember correctly, it's something like 'haven't looked for employment in the last month'). So, of the 60% of the population in the labor force, 35% are unemployed... that means 21% of the entire population is "unemployed", 39% are "employed", and 60% are "not in labor force".

On pg 771-772, they (it's actually a paper by Levitt and Venkatesh) say that over the time they have data for, 75-80% of low-level dealers are employed at some point in legitimate jobs, but they estimate that 40-50% have legitimate jobs at any given time.

If you read the paper and have any questions about the stuff in there, feel free to ask. It's been a while since I've read it, but I should be able to explain what most of the technical crap means.

Murk - 11-5-2007 at 03:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by random
It's online here

thanks! :yes:

upyerbum - 11-5-2007 at 03:57 PM

Excellent book, just finished it about 2 months ago. An eye-opener to say the least. The bit about Wade/Rowe and the drop in crime 15-20 years later...ouch.

clevohardcore - 11-5-2007 at 04:41 PM

When did this come out? The only book I have read on economics was SEX DRUGS AND ECONOMICS by Diane Coyle. Now that was a awsome read.


IF I can still find this in hardcore I will grab it this week.

Murk - 11-5-2007 at 04:44 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by clevohardcore
When did this come out?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freakonomics

it first came out in 2005, then a year later an updated version came out.