XHonusWagnerX
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Patriot Act, Freedom, etc...
Some guys at work were talking about what the police, FBI, CIA etc can do as far as tracking people, wire taps and what not. I didnt really talk much
because I dont know for sure and didnt want to say something that was wrong.
So.... what is the deal exactly? Like can they just randomly tap into someones phone conversations? Internet use? Check the websites you visit? People
you call? Anyone know the specifics?
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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joemaconmovies
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that's what i understand that can happen but i don't also know the specifics but i do have some intelligent friends who were very against it. i'm not
exactly sure what it all means.
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Murk
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| Quote: | Allows the FBI to access your records without a warrant or probably cause. It forces any third party, including doctors, libraries, bookstores,
universities, and Internet service providers- to turn over records on their clients or customers.
Forbids disclosure of their seizures. In other words, the FBI can, without a warrant, review what books you are reading and forbid the librarians
from informing you that you are being watched.
No longer requires the government to show evidence that the subjects of search orders are an “agent of foreign power,” a requirement that
previously protected Americans against abuse of this authority.
Frees the FBI from showing reasonable suspicion that the records are related to criminal activity, much less the requirement to show “probable
cause” that is listed in the Fourth Amendment.
Removes judicial oversight, a part of checks and balance. Judges would not have the authority to deny any investigation.
Allows surveillance orders to be issued based on one’s First Amendment activities. You could come under investigation because of the books you
read, the Web sites you visit, letters to the editor you write, or even attending this rally.
Forbids disclosure of an investigation, denying the individual the right to challenge illegitimate searches.
Violates the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the
person has committed or will commit a crime.
Violates the First Amendment’s guarantee of free speech by prohibiting recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, where
there is no real need for secrecy.
Violates the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to conduct investigations of American citizens in part of exercising their free
speech.
Violates the Fifth Amendment by failing to provide notice – even after the fact – to persons whose privacy has been compromised. Notice is a key
element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment. Notice allows one to question irregularities in the warrant and forces law
enforcement to operate in the open. Without notice, we have created a secret Gestapo.
Allows wiretaps without warrants for criminal prosecution. It effectively revokes your right to speak without your conversations being monitored.
The justice department has regularly acted irresponsibly in this area. The FISA (Federal Intelligence and Security Act) Court noted that federal
agents applying for warrants had regularly filed false and misleading information.
Puts the CIA back in the business of sping on Americans. This was outlawed due to abuses in the 1970s and earlier when the CIA engaged in
widespread spying of protest groups and other Americans.
Creates the crime of “domestic terrorism” in which those supporting groups such as Operation Rescue, Greenpeace, or PETA could come under
investigation. Any non-citizen providing assistance to any such group could be detained or deported.
Allows for the indefinite detention of non-citizens, denying them due process. |
i'm just glad that Patriot Act II and the Victory Act got shut down.
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upyerbum
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The Patriot Act is very unAmerican.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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XHonusWagnerX
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but what exactly do those laws say?
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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bombidol
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In essence they can do ANYTHING they want under the patriot act. Just think of it that way.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&resnum=0&q=cia%20satellite...
Arial view of were I live. I tdidn't link my house but clic on satelite button and you can get a view of your neighbor hood in almost real time.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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BDx13
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don't worry clevo, google earth and the satellite view of google maps is not real time.
my neighborhood was built five years ago and google still shows it under construction.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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Murk
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| Quote: | Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
but what exactly do those laws say? |
they're worded very heavily in legalese.
sometimes the changes have to do with just a word or two, but you have to ping pong back and forth from the original law to the list of changes
outlined in the Patriot Act.
| Quote: | | The legislation is an amalgam of changes to dozens of federal statutes in 300 subject areas. |
it's like a big menu outlining the changes to existing laws.
here's a nice little excerpt:
| Quote: | SEC. 209. SEIZURE OF VOICE-MAIL MESSAGES PURSUANT TO WARRANTS.
Title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) in section 2510--
(A) in paragraph (1), by striking beginning with `and such' and all that follows through `communication'; and
(B) in paragraph (14), by inserting `wire or' after `transmission of'; and
(2) in subsections (a) and (b) of section 2703--
(A) by striking `CONTENTS OF ELECTRONIC' and inserting `CONTENTS OF WIRE OR ELECTRONIC' each place it appears;
(B) by striking `contents of an electronic' and inserting `contents of a wire or electronic' each place it appears; and
(C) by striking `any electronic' and inserting `any wire or electronic' each place it appears. |
http://epic.org/privacy/terrorism/hr3162.html
now multiply by hundreds of pages.
here's the kicker:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06...
| Quote: | Sunday, June 12, 2005
On Thursday, President Bush stepped to a lectern at the Ohio State Highway Patrol Academy in Columbus to urge renewal of the USA Patriot Act and to
boast of the government's success in prosecuting terrorists.
Flanked by Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales, Bush said that "federal terrorism investigations have resulted in charges against more than 400
suspects, and more than half of those charged have been convicted."
Those statistics have been used repeatedly by Bush and other administration officials, including Gonzales and his predecessor, John D. Ashcroft, to
characterize the government's efforts against terrorism.
But the numbers are misleading at best.
An analysis of the Justice Department's own list of terrorism prosecutions by The Washington Post shows that 39 people -- not 200, as officials have
implied -- were convicted of crimes related to terrorism or national security.
Most of the others were convicted of relatively minor crimes such as making false statements and violating immigration law -- and had nothing
to do with terrorism, the analysis shows. For the entire list, the median sentence was just 11 months.
Taken as a whole, the data indicate that the government's effort to identify terrorists in the United States has been less successful than authorities
have often suggested. The statistics provide little support for the contention that authorities have discovered and prosecuted hundreds of
terrorists here. |
A Breakdown of 330 Cases Includes data sorted by type of conviction and terror group affiliation:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/nation/dojstats/full330...
it also seems hard to believe that this huge piece of legislation was drafted in 6 weeks after the attacks.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BD
don't worry clevo, google earth and the satellite view of google maps is not real time.
my neighborhood was built five years ago and google still shows it under construction. |
I noticed that today in class. We looked at the school and it showed the college without the new library. Form last year. Either way its weird and
strange. Like the government is saying Yes we are powerful but don't worry "we don't spy on you" wink wink.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Six66Mike
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I don't see how this is still surprising people over 5 years later lol. Bush has snuck in a lot of bad things, and a ton of executive orders.
Did you know he made an Executive Order on May 1 sanctioning Myanmar, knowing full well Nargis would be making land fall on May 2? There's far more
to the current story of Myanmar refusing US aid off navy ships than the media is telling, and sactioning a poor country 24 hours before a cyclone hits
(which developed and was being tracked from April 27) is just one reason they are refusing the US aid.
If Red Cross was actually allowed to go in and provide aid I'm sure they would accept, but the Order from Bush prevents aid organisations from helping
the government or people of Myanmar.
Sort of off topic but it goes to show how many incredibly wrong laws these people have run in under your noses, veiled poorly under a threat of
terrorism.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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XHonusWagnerX
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Im not surprised.... Just tyring to understand a little because of the conversation at work.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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Never trust the government, regardless of country.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Never trust the government, regardless of country. |
^^^^^^ Never trust the Country, because of the government.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Siczine.com
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Never trust the government, regardless of country. |
Damn right.
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upyerbum
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Murk
it also seems hard to believe that this huge piece of legislation was drafted in 6 weeks after the attacks. |
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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DaveMoral
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If there's anything we should have learned from the Rev Jeremiah Wright scandle is this... GOVERNMENTS LIE!
If you read the transcript of, or watched the video of, the controversial sermon that was cherry picked for that whole ordeal.
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