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DaveMoral
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Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
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You know, alot of people in 3rd world countries have no idea some of the plight going on in the US. The US is, at least by perception, the richest
country in the world(per person that is not at all true, and in terms of our national deficit we're pretty well screwed, our wealth is largely
illusory and bought on credit and other sorts of loans and our economy took such a bad turn because of that) and people who live in squalor want help
from the richest. Especially when the US is more often than not benefitting from exploiting the natural resources and cheap labor of many of these 3rd
world countries.
Also, don't worry, Haiti will be forgotten soon. Just like it has been for the last 30 years except when our government decides to overthrow their
government ever 10 years or so in order to exploit their resources and/or fleece the shit out of that country. You know when Dubya orchestrated the
coup to topple Aristid in 2003 Haiti had a national grain mill and a national concrete company. As soon as our government installed the government
they wanted, the one that's sitting in power now, the mill and the concrete company were sold to US companies and privatized and very swiftly closed.
Now Haiti has no choice but to import grain, flour and concrete from those same US companies. We have been fucking that country over continuously
since 1804 when they successfully had a slave revolution and made themselves an independent country.
And yeah, it's a shame that our government throws so much money outside the country. I don't have a problem with actually helping people in desperate
situations. Especially natural disasters. What I do have a problem with, however, is invading countries and engaging in costly military operations and
telling other people what they need to do for their people when we can't even get our own act together. Tens of thousands of people die every year
because they don't have a health insurance, can't afford the premiums and naturally can't afford even routine visits to the physician let alone costly
necessary surgeries. What we do? We get right wing, pro-corporate goons hemming and hawing about how universal health care is "socialism" and it'll
bankrupt the country or whatever. Meanwhile they have no problems spending billions and billions of dollars on killing brown people and funding
lunatics like Eric Prince and Blackwater mercs. Shit, so far most of the "help" we've given Haiti is in the form of Marines and M16s. There are plenty
of eye-witness reports about US troops in Haiti for "security" just making situations more chaotic. It's the same fucked up shit that happened in New
Orleans with Katrina. My brother was in the National Guard when that hit, got sent to Mississippi and it fucked him up to have to be all suspicious of
American citizens who were just devastated by a hurricane.
We could give financial aid to needing nations AND the needy in our own country if we'd cut back on our imperial foreign policy.
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wez138
Senior Member
Posts: 651
Registered: 12-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: TMMB's.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
You know, alot of people in 3rd world countries have no idea some of the plight going on in the US. The US is, at least by perception, the richest
country in the world(per person that is not at all true, and in terms of our national deficit we're pretty well screwed, our wealth is largely
illusory and bought on credit and other sorts of loans and our economy took such a bad turn because of that) and people who live in squalor want help
from the richest. Especially when the US is more often than not benefitting from exploiting the natural resources and cheap labor of many of these 3rd
world countries.
Also, don't worry, Haiti will be forgotten soon. Just like it has been for the last 30 years except when our government decides to overthrow their
government ever 10 years or so in order to exploit their resources and/or fleece the shit out of that country. You know when Dubya orchestrated the
coup to topple Aristid in 2003 Haiti had a national grain mill and a national concrete company. As soon as our government installed the government
they wanted, the one that's sitting in power now, the mill and the concrete company were sold to US companies and privatized and very swiftly closed.
Now Haiti has no choice but to import grain, flour and concrete from those same US companies. We have been fucking that country over continuously
since 1804 when they successfully had a slave revolution and made themselves an independent country.
And yeah, it's a shame that our government throws so much money outside the country. I don't have a problem with actually helping people in desperate
situations. Especially natural disasters. What I do have a problem with, however, is invading countries and engaging in costly military operations and
telling other people what they need to do for their people when we can't even get our own act together. Tens of thousands of people die every year
because they don't have a health insurance, can't afford the premiums and naturally can't afford even routine visits to the physician let alone costly
necessary surgeries. What we do? We get right wing, pro-corporate goons hemming and hawing about how universal health care is "socialism" and it'll
bankrupt the country or whatever. Meanwhile they have no problems spending billions and billions of dollars on killing brown people and funding
lunatics like Eric Prince and Blackwater mercs. Shit, so far most of the "help" we've given Haiti is in the form of Marines and M16s. There are plenty
of eye-witness reports about US troops in Haiti for "security" just making situations more chaotic. It's the same fucked up shit that happened in New
Orleans with Katrina. My brother was in the National Guard when that hit, got sent to Mississippi and it fucked him up to have to be all suspicious of
American citizens who were just devastated by a hurricane.
We could give financial aid to needing nations AND the needy in our own country if we'd cut back on our imperial foreign policy.
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Living a life kept shut by a dream,
I'm reaching out to grasp my reality.
Hands of time wrap tight around my neck, and hit me so hard,
leaving me eyes black.
staring at a ceiling,
wondering why i never left,
penning words in a notebook,
wondering why haven't slept.
sanity is tapping in a cell
inside my fucking head.
begging for redemption
after hearing what was said.
the nights, they will not sleep
cause the days, have played for keeps.
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wez138
Senior Member
Posts: 651
Registered: 12-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: TMMB's.
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Not really naive,my bestfriends missus is a manager for the charity pdsa which is quite big over here.
Its run to help people who need treatment for sick pets that cannot afford the costs of vets
(kinda off subject).........but wait.
She works really hard and long hours,but gets paid not very much opposed to the higher managers who are on ridiculous amounts of money.
Thus proving most charitys are a bit of a joke when brokedown, and tend to play on the nature of good people.
Now don't get me wrong i'm not bashing charitys as a whole but theres always some fucker taking more than they really need.
Living a life kept shut by a dream,
I'm reaching out to grasp my reality.
Hands of time wrap tight around my neck, and hit me so hard,
leaving me eyes black.
staring at a ceiling,
wondering why i never left,
penning words in a notebook,
wondering why haven't slept.
sanity is tapping in a cell
inside my fucking head.
begging for redemption
after hearing what was said.
the nights, they will not sleep
cause the days, have played for keeps.
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
Posts: 12139
Registered: 4-21-2005
Location: 1902666
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......gonna go take my pills now to sleep.
cya in a few days dudes
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wez138
Senior Member
Posts: 651
Registered: 12-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: TMMB's.
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I helped them!
I sent a flag of the stars and stripes just so they know which country there in (now).
Living a life kept shut by a dream,
I'm reaching out to grasp my reality.
Hands of time wrap tight around my neck, and hit me so hard,
leaving me eyes black.
staring at a ceiling,
wondering why i never left,
penning words in a notebook,
wondering why haven't slept.
sanity is tapping in a cell
inside my fucking head.
begging for redemption
after hearing what was said.
the nights, they will not sleep
cause the days, have played for keeps.
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morgan
Posting Freak
Posts: 1815
Registered: 7-21-2006
Location: Seguin, TX
Member Is Offline
Mood: neighbors fighting
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
I'm probably going to sound like a real dick here, but I can't stand reading about the sums of money our governments give out. The U.S., Canada, and
several European nations give out ridiculous sums of money every year, and all you hear is how they should give out even more. Why is it our tax
dollars should go everywhere but home? Billions of dollars are given out to third world countries every year, and that money is needed at home. We
have legions of homeless and poor people here that need help. Education and healthcare are in desperate need of funds and are turned away every year,
but we can fund these same things in other nations. How is it fair that the government gives away the tax dollars that WE give them to help out
everybody instead of ourselves? I'm sick of it. |
I had a conversation with a few people about this earlier tonight. Mike you hit the nail on the head as far as my feelings go.
Support the arts, shoot a rapper.
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DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
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Like I said before, I think it's even less fair that we give our governments taxes and then they use that money to spend ridiculous amounts of money
to inflict suffering upon entire nations and it far outweighs the money we put out to relieve suffering. It also outweighs the charitable giving in
it's infamy.
Sucks.
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sentrand
Posting Freak
Posts: 1046
Registered: 1-4-2010
Location: WxSxH, cincinnati
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Mood: hate riot 513,sheer terror, yuppicide, joe coffee
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CR83
I don't know why so much is handed out to others. I understand the compassion side of things but we need help here first and foremost. On the
flipside if we didn't do as much we would be looked at as assholes. Lose and lose. |
we are already looked at as assholes.
I'm a jerk. All night,I'm seeing Sentrand and thinking "Where do I know that guy from?".
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wez138
Senior Member
Posts: 651
Registered: 12-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: TMMB's.
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Yes,yes you are.
But it could be worse, you could be viewed as the little hairs around that arsehole like us.
Living a life kept shut by a dream,
I'm reaching out to grasp my reality.
Hands of time wrap tight around my neck, and hit me so hard,
leaving me eyes black.
staring at a ceiling,
wondering why i never left,
penning words in a notebook,
wondering why haven't slept.
sanity is tapping in a cell
inside my fucking head.
begging for redemption
after hearing what was said.
the nights, they will not sleep
cause the days, have played for keeps.
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DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
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HAHAHA. Yeah, the Brits have been hanging off the American asshole for like 6 decades now.
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wez138
Senior Member
Posts: 651
Registered: 12-1-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: TMMB's.
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Blairs been right up that bush.
Living a life kept shut by a dream,
I'm reaching out to grasp my reality.
Hands of time wrap tight around my neck, and hit me so hard,
leaving me eyes black.
staring at a ceiling,
wondering why i never left,
penning words in a notebook,
wondering why haven't slept.
sanity is tapping in a cell
inside my fucking head.
begging for redemption
after hearing what was said.
the nights, they will not sleep
cause the days, have played for keeps.
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Six66Mike
Posting Freak
Posts: 3090
Registered: 11-20-2003
Location: Queensland Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dead Hearts
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One funny thing to note about the US is just how obscene the amount of money it spends on it's military is for foreign interference against supposed
enemies. (stats as of 2008 taken from http://www.google.com/publicdata & GDP from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nom...)
Population: 304,060,000
Military spending: 4.28% of GDP
GDP: $14,441,425 USD
It's still calling China & Russia threats to US security.
China population: 1,325,639,982
Military spending: 1.96% of GDP
GDP: $4,327,448 USD
Russia population: 141,800,000
Military spending: 3.58% of GDP
GDP: $1,676,586 USD
At the very least the US spends $770.2bn per year on it's military & intelligence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_S...) with a reported DoD budget around $708bn for this year.
China spends $70-150bn (depending if you believe China or the US - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_China#Contro...) and Russia spends $33bn (http://trak.in/news/russias-defence-budget-to-be-36-bn-in-20...), still nowhere near the US spending.
China has 4x more people than the US and spends 5x more than china (based on 150bn number reported by the US) and 23x more than Russia.
There are 516,273 U.S. military service members in approximately 150 foreign countries. (http://www.upi.com/Top_News/Special/2009/12/02/Deployment-of...) They have troops on 6 continents. Where are Chinese & Russian troops stationed?
Well Russia has some in former territories like Abkhazia, Armenia & South Ossetia. Certainly not lining up troops in bases bordering the US. Russia
& China are now surrounded by US bases capable of striking every major city on both countries.
I know it's unrelated to aid funding but it comes back to US spending and tax money going out the window needlessly while still millions of people
across the US could use government support to rebuild after Katrina, own homes that they lost last year in the financial meltdown while the banks were
bailed out as they watched their world collapse around them, to feed the people on the streets, to give health care to those who need it most (and
it's still no less amusing at the amount of people are against health care reform because their money will be spent helping their fellow citizens, but
the same people are happy to spend it bombing foreigners and feeding them).
I had a rant in me, now I feel better for getting it out even if it's off topic. The propaganda and lies that are forced on the world by the US is
ridiculous, the "enemies" are in fact not enemies in most instances, they are just countries willing to stand up and say "we're not going to take it"
which is of course a slap in the face.
I need to stop now.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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barc0debaby
Posting Freak
Posts: 2138
Registered: 3-18-2006
Location: My mom's basement
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Mood: Punk as Fuck
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China doesn't need to spend a lot on the comfort and welfare of its troops. That is where a lot of our budget goes, our military goes out of its way
to assist those serving. Housing, food, recreation, family support, mental and emotional counseling, education, etc etc. I doubt that the People's
Liberation Army gives that big of a shit about its people, especially with the huge numbers they have to replenish their forces.
Financial crisis got you down? Hungry and need a place to sleep?Want some health care? How about a college education? Join the military. Three hots
and a cot baby, cant fuckin argue with that.
And as far as Katrina and wasted money goes, the 3,000 or so members of the Naval Construction Battalions stationed in the Mississippi area were
pounding pavement as soon minute the hurricane cleared. Our military did their job and did a damn good job at that, money well spent. Our leaders in
Washington are the ones who fucked that mess up.
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barc0debaby
Posting Freak
Posts: 2138
Registered: 3-18-2006
Location: My mom's basement
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Mood: Punk as Fuck
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And another thing on third world countries, the blame for their situation needs to stop being shifted onto the wealthier countries of the world. Yes
the greed of a powerful nation can have harmful effects on a weaker one, but the fucked up dictators and the fucked up genocides are all a product of
those people and their failures. No one wants to come out and say it cause it ain't PC and we are all suppose to feel bad about those less fortunate,
but facts are facts. No murderous dictator of "insert shitty country here" was born in Wisconsin. Our government may support bad people, but it does
not create them. They are a product of their environment, their culture, and their country. Its just like going through rehab, you can't fix the
problem until you admit the problem is yours.
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DaveMoral
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Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
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^I disagree with that. Most third world countries were created by imperial powers like England, France and Spain carving up entire continents to
figure out their areas of power and how they could attempt to control a population. The boundaries were drawn arbitrarily and stuffed competing tribes
next to each other. Furthermore, tribal and class differences were played up as a strategy to keep people disunited in order to keep them from coming
together against the colonial power structure. Some countries, primarily those that actually overthrew their colonizers, have done quite well and have
not been overly plagued with tribal differences. The countries where the colonial powers just pulled out when most of their other power was broken in
the region were left to dry with the played up animosities from the colonial powers still keeping people too divided to really get anything going.
Most problems in the third world can, and rightfully should, be pinned on the imperial powers of the recent past and further meddling by foreign
powers since the collapse of colonial governments. You can't blame a person's culture and environment without taking into account centuries and
decades of colonial rule. A dictator may not have been born in Wisconsin, yet, but many of those dictators have been legitimated by American military
and financial power as well as British, French and Spanish military and financial power. If you don't think colonialism is a root for many of the
problems in the third world and prefer to blame the brown people that populate most of those countries while exonerating their white European
oppressors, then you're just flat out being dishonest with yourself and anyone else you're holding a conversation with on the topic. How many
dictators or corrupt but democratically elected leaders of African, Middle Eastern or South Asian countries grew up during colonial rule? All of them.
Think about that.
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barc0debaby
Posting Freak
Posts: 2138
Registered: 3-18-2006
Location: My mom's basement
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Mood: Punk as Fuck
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I see it as personal problems on a national scale. For example If you are abused as a kid, yes the abuser is to blame for creating the problem...but
at some point you have to accept responsibility for your own behavior stemming from that. Sure your old man may have beat you, but he wasn't there
pointing a gun at the gas station attendant telling you to shoot the guy.
It should be the same thing with any group of peoples. Imperialism screwed over alot of people and in many aspects still does, but no imperial power
is going to magically rectify the situation. Its not fair what so ever, but those former colonies are the ones who have to figure out how to fix it.
That is the problem with 99% of the global politics today nobody wants to step up and be accountable for what has been done in the past and what isn't
getting done now.
"I blame it on the system but the problem is ours"
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DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
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I can agree with you to a certain extent. Problem is, the new imperialism is still fucking with those same countries. Jockeying for geo-political
dominance and the exploitation of a people's resources by not merely working with corrupt leaders that are already in place but actively backing the
corrupt leaders that will do their level best to essentially do whatever certain governments or corporations from certain regions of the world say. In
most cases that is governments and corporations in the West, though China is currently making in roads on this kind of neo-imperialism in Africa.
It's not that people don't want to solve their problems for themselves, it's that they keep getting routinely fucked in the ass by our's and other
governments and the very same corporations that are fucking us over right here. Haiti is a perfect relevant example of this. Sure we are doing so good
in the emergency situation right now(and mad props to Bob and his boys for that), but we fucked them over royally with our "interventions" in 1991 and
2003. That's not counting the continual fuckings over for the 200 plus years of Haitian independence. That's not even the tip of the iceberg either.
Shit, how much money do we unload on Egypt? How many decades has Hosni Mubarak been the "democratically elected" leader of that country? Egyptians
don't like that and are becoming increasingly sick of it, despite their economic success. There are a number of countries where people want more
democracy but it doesn't happen, and our government certainly doesn't say anything about it when the leaders in question are good "yes men" for us.
Jordan, Saudi Arabia(which, if we are being totally honest, is far worse than Iran in terms of it's religious fundamentalism and restrictions on
freedoms for religious groups and women, not to mention what is essentially indentured servitude for certain foreigners), and many other countries in
the ME. It's hard to fathom how many of those countries could maintain their governmental practices without American dollars and military aid. It just
adds insult to injury when leaders of similar or even more benign natures are targeted for American(and European) ire if they refuse to play ball with
American foreign policy rather than nod and say yes. And that goes for basically any part of the world, not simply the Middle East.
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Six66Mike
Posting Freak
Posts: 3090
Registered: 11-20-2003
Location: Queensland Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dead Hearts
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I've never heard a single good thing about the way retired American vets are treated, or their ongoing healthcare & housing being maintained.
The army: great while you're in it, then they shit all over you & ignore you?
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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