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serenity
Member
Posts: 314
Registered: 5-10-2005
Location: stockholm
Member Is Offline
Mood: nikola sarcevic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | | Religion is the cause of more pain, suffering, and death than any disease or famine. |
that just cant be true. the plagues in europe during the middle-ages caused the death of approximately one third of the european population.
when the spanish conquistadores came to south america, guns or religion wasnt the most common cause of death, it was the bacterias the spaniards
brought.
also, the biggest wars didnt have much to do with religion |
Not much of a fan of history, are you?
Starting from the bottom and going up....
Aside from some modern wars, and some of those are debatable, almost ALL wars throughout history have been religious wars.
The conquistadors came to the Americas to conquer and convert. Sounds religious to me.
Over the whole of history, religion has caused a whole lot more pain, suffering, and death than one third of Europe's population at that one point in
time. Maybe not all at once, as you're suggesting, but in total.
And yes, I'm simplifying, but certainly not distorting what happened. |
im a big fan of history actually, and most wars is about increase the land and economic wealth, not religion. the conquistadores came for the gold,
not to convert.
i just took the plague as an example of a disease that killed many more than religion.
i dont think religion has killed more people than disease and non-religious wars, and even if it has, i dont care. my sorrow wont bring them back
anyway |
Well, from my perspective it appears that your appreciation of history is skewed. Granted, wars are
fought for economic reasons as well as a number of other things, but in general, who has been behind them? How many wars throughout time have been
fought on completely nonreligious terms? Why was The Church the entity to go to when people wanted to gain support for their war?
Glad you agree on the plague thing being misleading.
Wow, one of my most favorite arguments ever. "I disagree, but if I'm wrong, I don't care." You sure told me. |
kings and leaders have been behind the wars. none of the world wars were about religion, the gulf war wasnt either. MANY wars have been fought without
religion being a factor.
yea, they went to the church to gain entity, implying they already had thoughts of going to war. they just seeked support, not a reason.
i dont agree with you, i think you misunderstood me.
again, i dont agree with you, but im just saying nothing i do will bring them back.
it ends
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tireironsaint
* BANNED *
Posts: 4299
Registered: 5-14-2003
Location: Colorado
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Mood: Beltones
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Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How
many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without
approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.
Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is
responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.
On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you
were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like
saying breathing and air are unrelated issues.
Veritas odium parit
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serenity
Member
Posts: 314
Registered: 5-10-2005
Location: stockholm
Member Is Offline
Mood: nikola sarcevic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How
many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without
approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.
Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is
responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.
On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you
were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like
saying breathing and air are unrelated issues. |
the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in
scandinavia/northen europe.
never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.
yes, i realized my mistake there.
it ends
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sippers
Senior Member
Posts: 668
Registered: 8-26-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: face value-the price of maturity
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| Quote: | Originally posted by defstarsteve
you can believe what you like, but I put my faith into myself, and my ability to do they things I need to.
There is no god, no easter bunny, no tooth fairy and no santa. |
WERD!!!could'nt of said it better myself..my
true god the alarm clock w/o it i'd be shit..greg
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jonnynewbreed
Posting Freak
Posts: 1091
Registered: 4-4-2003
Location: Dartmouth, nova scotia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Quite nice actually.
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Mother was Irish Catholic, father is prodistant. It makes me and my brothers confused and unbaptised. Holy water has never touched this head.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
Posts: 11900
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: Over here
Member Is Offline
Mood: The Alley Dukes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How
many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without
approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.
Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is
responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.
On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you
were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like
saying breathing and air are unrelated issues. |
the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in
scandinavia/northen europe.
never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.
yes, i realized my mistake there. |
World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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serenity
Member
Posts: 314
Registered: 5-10-2005
Location: stockholm
Member Is Offline
Mood: nikola sarcevic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How
many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without
approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.
Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is
responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.
On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you
were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like
saying breathing and air are unrelated issues. |
the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in
scandinavia/northen europe.
never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.
yes, i realized my mistake there. |
World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one. |
wwii had to do with race, not religion.
it ends
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upyerbum
Posting Freak
Posts: 3226
Registered: 10-14-2005
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Condemned 84
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I'd like to suggest a book...I don't want to come across preachy here, but I'm a recovering Catholic, and for years I could not reconcile the religion
I was raised in (I served mass as a youngster, and no I was never molested) with the world I was witnessing around me. Ive spent years researching the
origins of Christianity, Judaism and Islam. I learned a lot about the history of These religions but not much about the origins. Then I read a book
that sorted it all out for me. I'm not suggesting this book will change your views or life but it definitely put it all into a historical perspective
that makes far more sense to me than anything the church has ever told me. The book is called "The Jesus Mysteries" it's written by two fella's,
Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy. They've since written a second book called "Jesus and the Goddess". Both good books for all you seekers out there. As I
said I normally don't give "advice" when it comes to religion but I think every Christian who has ever questioned their religion should read these
books.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
Posts: 12139
Registered: 4-21-2005
Location: 1902666
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hellboy was on tv yesterday....wait that has nothing to do with any of this...
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
Posts: 11900
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: Over here
Member Is Offline
Mood: The Alley Dukes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Sorry man, I think you're deluded. You named three wars which are all modern wars and like I already said, modern wars are outside the discussion. How
many other wars can you absolutely say had NOTHING to do with religion? Historically speaking, most "kings and leaders" did absolutely nothing without
approval from the church or their respective religious leaders' say so.
Gaining support from the church certainly doesn't prove your point that religion is not involved, does it? If the church gives it's approval, it is
responsible. Otherwise they're stance is that the war is an unjust one and not ok in the eyes of their god.
On this third point, I wasn't saying you agreed. In fact, I clearly stated that you did not agree. Your statement that you didn't care whether you
were correct or not was the focus of my point. Obviously nothing will bring them back, but claiming wars and religion don't go hand in hand is like
saying breathing and air are unrelated issues. |
the american civil-war is counted as the first modern war, so that means i can take the crimean war for example, aswell as every war that went on in
scandinavia/northen europe.
never claimed that religion did not have anything to do with war, i was merely stating that it was not the main-cause.
yes, i realized my mistake there. |
World War 2 had nothing to do with religion? I think the jews might argue with you on that one. |
wwii had to do with race, not religion. |
Judaism isn't a religion?
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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serenity
Member
Posts: 314
Registered: 5-10-2005
Location: stockholm
Member Is Offline
Mood: nikola sarcevic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Judaism isn't a religion? |
jews are considered a race, even though judaism is a religion
it ends
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
Posts: 12139
Registered: 4-21-2005
Location: 1902666
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anyone for jew jokes?
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forsaken
Member
Posts: 410
Registered: 2-10-2005
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i was brought up in a baptist christian family, went to church every week and even christian school til i turned 18 and then i just ditched religion.
i had no faith and there was no personal relationship with god ... and without that it's just an empty fucking waste of shit ... why organised
religion sucks ... people just believe shit and don't think for themselves or even wonder why they're doing it. my friends been going to catholic mass
every week for 22 years and he doesn't know shit .. he just does it becuase he's italian and it's been in his family line since the beginning of time.
this all said, i believe in god. somehow.
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upyerbum
Posting Freak
Posts: 3226
Registered: 10-14-2005
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Condemned 84
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| Quote: | Originally posted by serenity
| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Judaism isn't a religion? |
jews are considered a race, even though judaism is a religion |
Jews are not a race. Judaism is a religion. Most jews who come from jewish families (ie. not converts) are Semitic. Anyone can be a jew.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
Posts: 12139
Registered: 4-21-2005
Location: 1902666
Member Is Offline
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Slayer rocks
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