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XHonusWagnerX
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Is 'Hardcore' a musical genre or an attitude that a bunch of different bands carry?
This could be an endless debate, but Ive been listening to a bunch of stuff on my iPod the last 2 weeks and I guess that most of it would be
considered 'Hardcore' even though a bunch of the bands have almost nothing in common. For example....
Supertouch
The Banner
Skarhead
Negative Approach
Bad Brains
The Bars
Black Flag
Gorilla Biscuits
Dropdead
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Voodoobillyman
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Thats because the word "hardcore" has been used as much as any old whores twat. It's just about as dirty and worthless too.
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BKT
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Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?
MM.
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Voodoobillyman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?
MM. |
Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal.
That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the
beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.
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XHonusWagnerX
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I dont really hate anything... well actually I hate most things, but I do like a little bit of everything. I like some 'thug' stuff like One Life Crew
and a little Skarhead now and then. I just like the older bands better.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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gavin
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?
MM. |
Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal.
That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the
beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.
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agreed
most of the stuff MM posts that he likes is not what i think of as hardcore
i aint knockin dude
i just dont think its anything but bad metal
you come at the king....you best not miss
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Siczine.com
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so bands like Integrity that were a part of the hardcore scene but are more metal influenced aren't hardcore right? Are they metal or metalcore?
Hardcore is supposed to be an attitude/lifestyle moreso than an actual "sound" perse, at least it was supposed to be.
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ENDERA.x
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Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.
You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc
You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc
You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc
You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc
its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are
in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the
bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different
style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres
still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so
I do believe though that Hardcore is a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and
the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics
that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.
The message might be slightly different, but I believe the principles remain the same, or very similiar.
If there is no emphasis are unity and friendship, dedication and respect,. then it's not hardcore in that respect. Because it might be with a sound,
but not with the lifestyle to it.
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CR83
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.
You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc
You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc
You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc
You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc
its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are
in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the
bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different
style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres
still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so
I do believe though that Hardcore as a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and
the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics
that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha. |
Very well put
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BKT
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Endra that was a great post.
I think a lot of you need to hang up the boots and move on. (To quote one of your shitty old school bands) Hardcore has always been about an attitude
and way of life. I would go so far to say that that is more important than the music itself. Shit changes, new people get involved and there is always
going to be a evolution from what was the original style. Thank God for that, it keeps things from becoming stale and boring. Metal has been part of
hardcore from day one. AF and Leeway were about as metal as you can get.
Now hip hop has come into the mix as well and has turned out some great bands in my opinion. Boxcutter, Vietnom, E-Town are just as much hardcore as
Blood for Blood, Aganostic Front and Black Flag. You think some of that is shit and I think Black Flag is shit, big deal, but that does not change the
fact that it is all hardcore and I can appreciate all of it. Except change or move on, its the way of the world.
MM.
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Voodoobillyman
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Beleive me, I have not involved myself with the "hardcore scene" for quite some time. I find myself listening to alot of older stuff and finding
recent shit worth listening to very sparingly. I still have alot of love for the bands I do listen to and would go see a show once in a blue moon if
it had a real good bill line up. I'm a husband and a dad now so I've lost my passion for keeping up with it and I can't stand the de-evolution of the
music within it for the most part. I come here for the stimulating conversation, not the "scene".
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Discipline
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I don't think the old timers need to hang up their boots, so much as I think a lot of the kids should call their shit something different, as what a
lot of people call hardcore these days has nothing to do with what the scene was supposed to be about. If all these kids want to have their bands and
scene and whatnot, that's fine. But they shouldn't try to associate what they like with an established genre. Call it something new, cause it's not
hardcore.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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upyerbum
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Its all just varying degrees of skinhead culture anyway (hip-hop included) so everyone just be skinheads get drunk and shut the fuck up.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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JawnDiablo
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hardcore is smoking PCP and listening to Venom
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBadVibes
| Quote: | Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
Well if you all hate hardcore so much then what the hell are you doing here? And why the hell do you even indulge in it?
MM. |
Believe me friend, what you consider hardcore and what I consider hardcore are two very different things, what you listen to in my opinion is metal.
That was the point I was making, the word hardcore has been vaguely applied to a multitude of musical styles and is no longer what it was in the
beginning. I don't hate hardcore, I hate the metal bullshit being called hardcore that dudes like you listen to and call hardcore.
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agreed
most of the stuff MM posts that he likes is not what i think of as hardcore
i aint knockin dude
i just dont think its anything but bad metal |
Though I agree with alot of what Endera had to say, I do think there's alot of shit that's departed so far from the spirit of hardcore that it
shouldn't be considered part of the scene/movement even if it sounds the same as alot of hardcore bands and follows similar structures.
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JawnDiablo
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this whole debate is kind of becoming a parody of itself....
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Discipline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by upyerbum
Its all just varying degrees of skinhead culture anyway (hip-hop included) so everyone just be skinheads get drunk and shut the fuck up.
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Exactly
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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tireironsaint
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As far as the original topic of this thread, Hard Core originally was an attitude not a sound. Sure there were some similarities in terms of energy,
ideas, aggression and what have you, but you had such diverse sounds under the banner of Hard Core Punk. There were more regional sounds, but even
within that there were huge differences.
Go back and check out a bunch of the old regional compilations and see how different they sound from one band to the next. Check out the old Texas HC
comp, Cottage Cheese From The Lips Of Death and tell me if any of those bands really sound alike. They sure as fuck don't sound like they could be the
same band with a different vocalist like the vast majority of the bands claiming HC nowadays. Even bands with the same ideology from the same locale
had very different sounds, take Boston Straight Edge for example. There's SS Decontrol, Slapshot, and DYS, all with very distinct styles and sounds
even though they came from a fairly small section of the overall scene. Fuck, some of them even shared a member and I don't think anyone who knows HC
at all would ever mistake them for each other.
From a wider view, you've got bands as musically disparate as The Big Boys, Jerry's Kids, DRI, Black Flag, Minor Threat, Angry Samoans, Husker Du,
Naked Raygun, Dead Kennedys, and thousands of others all under the same genre name. Is that because they sound alike? Fuck no. They carried a set of
beliefs that shared some commonalities that were enough on the outside of the mainstream to link them all together. Does that really exist today? I
don't think so, at least not under the banner of HC, not in the way it did anyway. Sure, there are still some bands playing styles reminiscent of what
it used to be, there are even a lot of people who still believe in the ideals that were grouped under the banner of HC back then, but by and large the
people who follow those ideals are absolutely not a part of what is generally called the "hardcore scene" today.
Most of the people who involve themselves in that group appear to be there looking for bands that have that common sound that to my ear is just metal
with lots of break downs and "mosh parts", the occasional hip hop or rap influence creeping in to mix things up. Even the bands that supposedly follow
some ideology that grew out of the old HC movement have next to nothing in common with what those ideas were originally about. Take a look at the
current SxE scene for a perfect example of what I mean by that.
As far as any of us "hanging up our boots", FUCK YOU. Hard Core separated itself from Punk Rock while still being a part of it in the big picture by
calling itself Hard Core Punk, later shortened to just Hard Core. Why is it so difficult for this shit being played today to find a name for itself?
It's got only the most tenuous link to what really is Hard Core, so it would make a lot more sense and cause a lot less problems for everyone involved
on both sides if it could just have the balls to quit trying to call itself by a name it doesn't deserve. I can't count the times I've either been in
or just witnessed debates about whether certain old bands wer HC or Punk because the line there is narrow, yet with such a glaring difference between
what really is HC and what claims to be today it would make that much more sense for the music flying that false flag to go ahead and find it's own
name. So yeah MM, you think we should get out of "your scene", we think your scene should stop using the name of something it could never be good
enough to polish the boots of, so there's our (or at least MY) side of the story.
Veritas odium parit
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Siczine.com
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Lets break it down into more subgenres. Fuck hardcore, we'll call it hardcore punk or hardcore metal.
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juandiablo
this whole debate is kind of becoming a parody of itself.... |
Just like hardcore in general...*rimshot*
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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
I think a lot of you need to hang up the boots and move on. (To quote one of your shitty old school bands)
I think Black Flag is shit |
OUCH! That hurts.... 
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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upyerbum
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Why not just get it over with and call it BreakDown. Thats all any of em wanna hear anyway.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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JawnDiablo
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german porn is pretty hardcore
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ENDERA.x
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LOL ^
french porn is way worse
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upyerbum
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If your watching German porn you can be sure that at some point someone is getting shit on.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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