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Siczine.com
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NJ/PA Terror Plot
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070509/ap_on_re_us/fort_dix_plo...
Definitely a close call for NJ/PA residents.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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Hope they get the worst the justice system can give them.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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Siczine.com
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Agreed.
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JawnDiablo
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string em up
you can use my tree
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Voodoobillyman
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buncha yahoos, they won't see the light of day again, they will rot in prison cells. Theres your martyrdom fuckheads
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DaveMoral
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Sigh.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Sigh. |
Is that because you're worried that all muslims will be viewed the same in the media, or cause you think they're innocent?
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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DaveMoral
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Eh, I'm just sick of it all. I don't know if these dudes are innocent or guilty. I'm generally inclined to think there's alot of smoke and mirrors
involved with shit that never pans out, and it sure as hell helps the Bush administration to say "oh look, we stopped a plot" when their approval
raitings are in the gutter. Not to mention elements of this story strike me as just farcical. For instance, they say it all came about when a store
clerk tipped 'em off about this dvd these guys wanted copied... now, if you've got the ability to make the fuckin' dvd don't you think you'd have the
ability to make copies of it? And why Oh why would these dudes actually take the shit to a business to have a fucking terrorist video copied for them?
Quite frankly, if they were for real, I don't think they could have ever gotten the shit off the ground because let's face it... they weren't smart
enough to keep everything in-house, how in the hell could they have ever gotten weapons and gone through with it?
Indeed, it raises some concerns about how Muslims will be percieved, how my friends and family will be percieved and treated after this shit. No
worries really in Philadelphia, we are a significant portion of the Philly population, but elsewhere in the area could be problematic. And I tire of
the reactionary comments like "string 'em up" and shit like that because if an American intelligence agent was nabbed in Iran on suspicion of
attempting to foment a coup or something and they were going to string him up there'd be bitching and moaning by the same such people that want to
"string up" Muslims who do some stupid shit here.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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Point taken.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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upyerbum
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I don't want to start another "discussion" but I tend to agree with Dave on these so-called stings. They are really scraping the bottom of the
barrell. There's either no-one to catch or they can't catch them, take your pick. The cops do the same thing with dope-dealers, they nail a couple,
throw the public a bone and business goes on as usual. Racism and religion are used to divide us, not unite us.
If they are guilty however...
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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Siczine.com
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What do you expect, thats why I can't stand religious institutions of any sort. Either convert to their belief system or we'll look down upon you and
call you a heathen.
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MyOwnWay
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I know my political views arent very popular on this board. But I call bullshit on this one. This has political desperation all over it. Trying to
refocus america on how these terrorists can hit here at home. Americas numbers are growing to support bringing the troops home. Bush's plan failed
just like he failed us. His administration is grabbing at straws. And trying desperately to hold on to the fear and rage that 911 spawned here in
America. Its not working anymore.
Davemoral... I respect your post. Well said.
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Siczine.com
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See I would agree with both of you however, this hasn't been big news in anywhere but NJ/PA and even most people in the area I've talked to haven't
heard about it. If it really was just to make people think "Hey, look we actually got something!" It would be getting a lot more conversation than
it is.
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newbreedbrian
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it was big news in the paper here (Nova Scotia), I would imagine it was same across the rest of the country/continent. sounds a bit overblown to me as
well based on what i've read about it
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Siczine.com
See I would agree with both of you however, this hasn't been big news in anywhere but NJ/PA and even most people in the area I've talked to haven't
heard about it. If it really was just to make people think "Hey, look we actually got something!" It would be getting a lot more conversation than
it is. |
Well, the thing is... given the track record of the administration, the FBI bringing bogus cases that were thrown out of court and Gonzales' evasive
methods in Senate hearings there's a good deal of skepticism here. Not to mention, the mole they planted amongst these dudes was ultimately looked at
by these guys, apparently, as the dude that could actually get things off the ground for them. It could turn out that the mole was an informant that
instigated what would have otherwise been a lot smoke being blown by these guys. If that's the case it's entrapment.
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Siczine.com
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You make many good points and I'm sure you're much more informed than I am on issues of this nature. And trust me I agree that the government is
extremely corrupt and would easily do something like this. But I just think if the gov't was trying to pull one over they would try to do something a
little bigger than this because god knows they are more than capable (Yeah, I know that's hard to believe they are capable of anything but corruption
and scandals are their strength)
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DaveMoral
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Well, I can see where you're coming from on that one... but, the bigger something gets the harder it is going to be to cover over the shit too. At any
rate, one thing this case does supremely effectively is casts the eye of suspicion upon EVERY Muslim that anyone knows. These guys were loved by the
people that knew them. "Extremely nice guys" I've heard numerous times. Completely unsuspcious dudes. So a regular guy Muslim dude like myself can
suddenly seem like a timebomb just waiting to go off just by virtue of being Muslim. I'm a corn-fed white boy from northern Indiana that converted to
Islam... these guys were mostly Yugoslav ex-pats if I recall correctly. They're "white" too. See what I'm getting at?
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Siczine.com
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Yes I can see where you're coming from. And it's because people don't understand it, they fear what they don't know. As you've stated Philadelphia
has a huge Muslim population so while it won't present a big problem here it will in the rural areas.
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MyOwnWay
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Called bullshit, I stand by it. I say entrapment. I got this earlier today from a news source... As a side note the man pressuring him, was the FBI
agent. (link provided upon request if my integrity is in question)
Also, one of the men, Tatar, called a Philadelphia police officer in November, saying that he had been approached by someone who was pressuring him to
obtain a map of Fort Dix, and that he feared the incident was terrorist-related, according to court documents.
"It could be a defense, that he felt he was being pressured to do things and actually called law enforcement to report it," Sohail Mohammed, a lawyer
and Muslim community leader in New Jersey who is not involved in the case.
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DaveMoral
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Got a link for that? Needless to say, I feel particularly interested in this story.
I heard this too, because apparently the informant went by the name "Mahmood" and that was who these guys thought could make it happen.
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MyOwnWay
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Got a link for that? Needless to say, I feel particularly interested in this story.
I heard this too, because apparently the informant went by the name "Mahmood" and that was who these guys thought could make it happen.
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http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20070510/464298c0_3...
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Siczine.com
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That's an interesting article to say the least.
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DaveMoral
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If I end up figuring this may very well be a case of entrapment expect me to be saying shit like "free the Fort Dix six" or something.
I'm taking a wait and see approach to this though.
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Voodoobillyman
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I'm not trying to start anything here, but how organized was the dude at VA Tech or the two at Colombine? It dosen't take much organization to do
damage if you get the jump on things. My point of view as someone who has been charged with protecting this country is this, take every threat no
matter how minimal seeming seriously. I would'nt put it past the Gov to pull something like this on purpose to help boost ratings, but if these guys
displayed even an intent to commit that kind of crime, they should be handled swiftly and with no mercy, no matter how unorganized they were.
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DaveMoral
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Still, just talking about something isn't a criminal act until you take steps to make it happen. So the question now is this... did the informant push
them to make it happen where as they may not have gone as far as they did(attempt to purchase weapons whose real cost they didn't even know) if he
hadn't been encouraging them to do so. One of the suspects called the police talking about someone urging him to get a map of Fort Dix.
Like I said, I'm reserving my judgement BUT the rule of thumb is "innocent until proven guilty" and no matter how guilty reports might be making these
guys appear right now... the burden of proof is on the government and we should be skeptical of their claims until they can actually prove these guys
guilty. I'll be keeping track of this one as best I can.
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