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Discipline
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The immigration debate
How do people around here feel about this ongoing issue. Let them stay, give them the boot, etc.?
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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CR83
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boot. Why do "illegal" immigrants have the ability to take from this system? Apply for citizenship and get through legally.
The analogy Fred Thompson gave was, "put up a wall around the borders but put a door in it so we can decide who gets in."
I like that idea and I do not support mr. thompson.
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Discipline
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I agree. I think that by letting 12 million illegal immigrants stay sends a bad message to those who came in legally. Those who came in legally had
to wait in line, pay their money, and earn the right to come in. If the government lets the illegals stay, they're pissing all over those who
followed the rules.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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Siczine.com
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Fuck amnesty. If you're here illegally, you should get the boot.
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tireironsaint
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The only thing illegal immigration does is allow a corrupt system to continue to exploit the poor and working class. Fuck people taking advantage of a
flawed system that is supported by our hard earned tax dollars. And by that, I mean both the illegals as well as the corporations and other rich
bastards who exploit the situation to their advantage.
Veritas odium parit
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Muttley
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BOOT.
From the interview I did with Siczine.com (thanks Jeff):
I don't think most Americans understand the severity of the mistakes that were made over the last almost 20 years that led to 9/11. The
immigration issue makes that clear. Securing our borders is a low priority, and most Americans are fighting to keep illegal immigrants from being
prosecuted and/or shipped out. Why? Because of political correctness and because our economy depends so much on these illegal immigrants. Isn't that
sad? As long as we let this continue, our national security will suffer for it. And this is part of why our culture is falling apart, because we
tolerate what is clearly illegal activity and our children don't learn right from wrong.
And by the way, this plot to blow up the fuel lines at JFK Airport here in NYC just proves my point perfectly. These were mostly South Americans, not
the typical Middle Eastern people that are on our no-fly lists and are given extra scrutiny at security checkpoints.
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Discipline
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You have no idea what political correctness is until you come to Canada, especially Toronto.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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Six66Mike
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12 million Mexicans doing the jobs at really low wages that Americans don't want to do, yeah kick em out. Pick your own crops.
I don't these people should be kicked out when they shouldn't have been let in to begin with. The politics and policing of the border was shit, and
now decades later you want to try to fix it & kick everyone out who got in because you were asleep at the wheel.
Deal with the ones you got, the ones who have been working & contributing for the past 10-20 years, and tighten up now for the future. Don't punish
those who are active members of society just because you fucked up in the first place.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Siczine.com
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We didn't fuck up...the government did. And good luck trying to decide which ones actually contribute to society and those who don't (and the ones
who don't work sure as hell don't pay taxes from day labor).
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Six66Mike
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you/we as a collective country, ie politicians/laws. Not you yourself.
None of it will matter if the current government gets its way with the North American Union, to further extent NORTHCOM & NAFTA into something like
the EU.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Muttley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
I don't these people should be kicked out when they shouldn't have been let in to begin with. The politics and policing of the border was shit, and
now decades later you want to try to fix it & kick everyone out who got in because you were asleep at the wheel. |
So we shouldn't try to fix past mistakes? Because someone fucked up years ago we should let this continue to be a free for all?
By that logic if a criminal escapes from jail we should let him stay free. Why? Because someone was asleep at the wheel and let him out.
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DaveMoral
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It's not fucking amnesty you retards. Dude's have to GO BACK to their country and apply for citizenship but get bumped up the list. Jesus Christ you'd
think they were just handing out citizenship or something.
As for deciding who contributes to society and who doesn't... that's a bullshit dichtomy. Might as well round up the lowlifes that are "native" and
ship them out too because how many homegrown Americans contribute FAR LESS to society than the working poor who do the fucking jobs you and your
fellow citizens don't want to do?
Goddamn it I hate it when this shit comes up.
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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
It's not fucking amnesty you retards. Dude's have to GO BACK to their country and apply for citizenship but get bumped up the list. Jesus Christ you'd
think they were just handing out citizenship or something.
As for deciding who contributes to society and who doesn't... that's a bullshit dichtomy. Might as well round up the lowlifes that are "native" and
ship them out too because how many homegrown Americans contribute FAR LESS to society than the working poor who do the fucking jobs you and your
fellow citizens don't want to do?
Goddamn it I hate it when this shit comes up. |
And I fuckin' hate it when you pull this holier than thou bullshit and assume that everyone who doesn't agree with your P.C. opinion is a "retard".
God fuckin' forbid someone who ILLEGALLY entered this country have to go back home and make an attempt to do things legally. That's the point all the
ultra-liberals seem to gloss right over, the law has already been broken by these people and yet the only punishment they're getting is a free ride
back home. Nobody is calling for the ILLEGALS to be rounded up and put in camps or exterminated, yet anyone who actually has the balls to speak up and
say that these people should be treated as lawbreakers and be shipped home is treated like they just espoused Nazi ideals.
While it is a slippery slope discussion when you try to start deciding who is or isn't "contributing to society", it's pretty easy to see who is here
legally and who isn't, who pays their taxes and who doesn't, who takes advantage of the lax rules of welfare and so on and so forth. Face it, people
ARE abusing the system and not contributing to it. People are bringing down the economy and well being of this country and if they're breaking the law
to do it, they should be stopped. For the most part I don't hear a lot of talk about making a bunch of new laws, I just hear people asking that the
laws we already have in place be upheld and utilized.
As for doing the jobs nobody wants to do, maybe it's different in your area, but I've seen my friends lose jobs that they worked hard to get to
illegals. I've seen wages drop because illegals are taking lower wages to do the same job. I've seen people who have worked years and years to learn a
trade get to the point where they have to start over because the job they've spent their entire life learning to do properly is being made worthless
because companies are willing to pay half price to illegals to do a half assed job. On the flip side, do you really see this as a good long term
solution to the problems faced by these people? Aren't they actually enabling the bosses to control and oppress them by being here illegally and
working for criminally low wages? Sure, they might be making a lot more money than they could ever hope to make in their own country, but isn't that
making their country a subsidiary or even a parasite of our own? Doesn't it destroy a culture to make it enticing for all the fathers to leave their
families behind so they can try to support them somewhere else? Is there an easy solution to all of this? No, obviously not, but just like with
addicts the attitude this government has towards illegals is an enabling attitude. Allowing this shit to go on only further entrenches the cycle and
makes it harder to ever reach a real solution.
Veritas odium parit
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DaveMoral
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I pointed out, in case you fucking missed it, the current resolution or whatever they are calling it being used by Democrats is one that requires that
people who are currently here illegally go back home and go through legal channels on an excellerated basis. In other words, because they've been here
so long they get bumped up on the citizenship list but they still have to leave in order to apply. It's not like anyone is just going to get a free
pass. Or are you conveniently ignoring that element of the bill??? It's either that or you're woefully ignorant of what's ACTUALLY being proposed.
So thanks for ignoring the entire opening paragraph of my post!
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tireironsaint
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Since you clearly missed my saying this: "God fuckin' forbid someone who ILLEGALLY entered this country have to go back home and make an attempt to do
things legally." I'll throw it up there again. And since you can't seem to talk about anything reasonably without insulting everyone else, learn to
speak to people and not DOWN to them and maybe people would care about what you say.
Sorry if I didn't make it clear, I was talking more about how things actually happen NOW as opposed to how they may or may not happen down the road
according to the bill. I have no problem with the proposal to make people go through the LEGAL process of immigrating, I just am aware enough to
realize that this probably will never come to light since so many big money people have a nice system to keep the poor people under heel as things are
now.
Veritas odium parit
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DaveMoral
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Then why not address what I was saying instead of latching onto the word "retards" and make it clear what you're speaking about. I was talking about
the currently proposed bill and you're off on another tangent completely.
Now we can get into talking about the ills of corporate America and it's exploitation of third world peoples both at home and abroad. However, I don't
think deporting 12 million people to a homeland that they left because the conditions there are 100x worse than conditions here and being paid what
practically amounts to slave wages. Shit, in that regard it might actually be BETTER to grant amnesty to those already here AND enforce livable wages
and fair employment practices rather than bussing a bunch of people back to Mexico or wherever else and putting them back into situations that are FAR
worse than anything they'd have here.
"Native" born citizens are also scamming the welfare system far more than illegals and are contributing far less to society. The thing that really
bothers me is the "us vs them" mentality that so many espouse. THAT's not getting us anywhere as a species, let alone a nation.
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tireironsaint
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Go back and look at your original post and tell me there's anything clear there aside from you getting pissy at pretty much everyone who posted
anything else in this thread. Had I known you were specifically addressing a specific point within the context of this VERY FUCKING LARGE topic we're
all discussing, it might have been likely that I would have addressed that. As it was, I addressed part of what you said and clarified my position on
the entire issue as well. Don't blame me for not reading your mind.
Obviously you and can agree that corporate interests and those wealthy few are really at fault in perpetuating this cycle, but your statement about
how bad it would be to deport all these people amounts to nothing but welfare on a national scale. In other words, you propose that because these
people have trouble getting good working conditions in THEIR OWN AUTONOMOUS NATION that we should subsidize their lives. At least, that's how I'm
understanding your statement there. If I am understanding that correctly then that is precisely what I am against. We are the richest nation in the
world and yet we don't even take care of our own people. Somehow through bullshit loopholes, we are being exploited into taking care of people whose
very presence here is against the law, that's fucked up. That's not an "us against them" mentality, that's not enjoying people getting ahead by
stepping on my back. I don't enjoy getting screwed so other people can better their lives. I'm happy to help out people in need, but my priorities
don't start with people who are more than happy to fuck things up and outright steal from people who are trying to get by legally.
As far as legal citizens scamming more from the welfare system than illegals, I'd like to see some reference to back that up. I'm well aware that it
happens, we all see American scumbags ripping off the system all the time and I'm no less disgusted by U.S. citizens doing it than I am by illegals,
but the fact of the matter is, that is an entirely different topic.
Veritas odium parit
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Six66Mike
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I haven't read the above comments but here's my reply to Muttley:
Yes, let them stay. Escaped convicts are chased by authorities and sent back to prison when caught. When these illegals from Mexico are blatantly
working on farms in Southern California for 15 years as illegals & no attempts to deport them is made, they've earned the right to stay.
Nobody bothered to go after them because in the 80's and 90's nobody cared. Politicians and business thought it was great, underpaid workers who will
do just about anything. They provide a service in the economy, boost profit margins & productivity on low wages. Its 3rd world workers in your own
back yard, no overseas out sourcing required.
So again, let them stay. You can crack down now and get tough on illegal migrants but the boat has sailed on those here for decades, with kids born &
raised in the US. These kids are US citizens, born on US soil so their parents should be allowed to stay.
But honestly, with this new "Security and Prosperity Partnership Of North America" bullshit Bush is trying to enact on his own will make North America
like to European Union and none of this immigration debate will matter. They want to build a transport superhighway from Mexico to Canada to
transport Mexican made goods, or Chinese imports going through Mexico instead of California. The borders will be wide open.
Besides, Mexicans aren't terrorists yet they are the majority of illegals currently in the country. This has nothing to do with terrorism as a lot of
politicans and media are hyping it up to be. 9/11 terrorists got into the US with their real names & passports, clearing US customs at the airport &
living for years without a problem. None of this can be done in the name of terror because terrorists were granted legal entry into the front door,
not sneaking in the wide open back door & given jobs.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Siczine.com
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
excellerated |
You mean accelerated.
And way to get your panties in a bunch and resort to insults well before anyone else. From the majority of the posts I've read of yours, you proudly
claim how ignorant and stupid everyone else is, ever think to look in the mirror?
Get off your fucking high horse.
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clevohardcore
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
12 million Mexicans doing the jobs at really low wages that Americans don't want to do, yeah kick em out. Pick your own crops.
I don't these people should be kicked out when they shouldn't have been let in to begin with. The politics and policing of the border was shit, and
now decades later you want to try to fix it & kick everyone out who got in because you were asleep at the wheel.
Deal with the ones you got, the ones who have been working & contributing for the past 10-20 years, and tighten up now for the future. Don't punish
those who are active members of society just because you fucked up in the first place. |
^^^^^^^ I hate that excuse. People here will pick those crops man. Thats ignorant bullshit from the company heads that want to pay the next to nothing
wages. They want maximum profit for no cost. Many people around here would jump at those jobs. Don't fool yourself bro.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
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And were is Rodney King when you need him? O wait, he can go to hell too.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Six66Mike
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| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
12 million Mexicans doing the jobs at really low wages that Americans don't want to do, yeah kick em out. Pick your own crops.
I don't these people should be kicked out when they shouldn't have been let in to begin with. The politics and policing of the border was shit, and
now decades later you want to try to fix it & kick everyone out who got in because you were asleep at the wheel.
Deal with the ones you got, the ones who have been working & contributing for the past 10-20 years, and tighten up now for the future. Don't punish
those who are active members of society just because you fucked up in the first place. |
^^^^^^^ I hate that excuse. People here will pick those crops man. Thats ignorant bullshit from the company heads that want to pay the next to nothing
wages. They want maximum profit for no cost. Many people around here would jump at those jobs. Don't fool yourself bro. |
Americans won't do the jobs at the wages they love to pay. I don't even think its legal for Americans to get paid that little.
Canadian farms bring up Mexicans & Jamaicans in the summer to harvest all sorts of crops because there is a lack of workers willing to do the hard
work in the region. And this is at legal wages on par with fast food employees and shit like that.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Discipline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
It's not fucking amnesty you retards. Dude's have to GO BACK to their country and apply for citizenship but get bumped up the list. Jesus Christ you'd
think they were just handing out citizenship or something.
|
Here is my concern with this. People who immigrate legally often have to wait years before they are allowed to move here, and have to go through a
lot of bullshit. If these illegals are sent back to their home countries to apply, bumping them up the list is rewarding them for breaking the law.
I've said it before, I have no problem with LEGAL immigration, but I take issue with ILLEGAL immigrants. People seem to think they have the right to
illegally enter the US and Canada simply because life is better here, and there is more opportunity to succeed. We are not one happy world. We have
borders and laws for a reason, and should enforce them. I'm completely against sending illegals home to apply for citizenship, as they've shown a
complete disregard for several laws. I'm in favour of shipping them home and banning them from ever returning. Contrary to what many of them have
stated in the news, they DON"T have the right to earn a living here and send money home to their families, for the simple reason that they don't have
the right to be here in the first place.
(Look, no name calling!! )
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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defstarsteve
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lots of random thoughts
americans want it both ways....
good pay but low prices on what you buy....
can a head of lettuce really be a 1.00 or 2.00, how can anyone make a profit on that?
the farmer, the farm hands, the trucking compny the grocery distributor, the grocery store, all need to get a cut of that money, who is going to pay
5.00 a head of lettuce so all farm workers can get benefits?
who really wants to work for minimum wage and who can afford it?
as a business owner, in an industry where illegal workers in texas and cali make up a large portion of the work force, I will say this...
I wish there were a few around here...illegal or not (there are none that I can find, I have checked)
not so I can pay them less then I would pay anyone else... I am actually one of the highest paying employers of low skilled workers in the sw PA right
now
but having lived and worked in texas for 8 years before moving to PA,
I must say that they work harder, faster and more efficently then thier american counter parts...
even with language barriers
give me illegals over white trash anyday
why, they need the job, and they know what will happen if they lose it,
all of the illegals I knew in texas, sent home 75-90% of their earnings to support thier families back home, since there are no jobs there for them to
support themselves on...
rather then buy big screen tv's or nights drinking down at the bar
the same can not be said for the lazy bastards available around here
the white trash will go get back on the welfare tit if they get laid off...
you can't do that in most staes wihtout proper papers so the illegals have no option there,
it's california's fault they fucked up their welfare system and hand you check as soon as you cross the border, but my taxes don't come close to
paying for california's problems
I can't even get a PA drivers licsence without 5 forms of proper i.d., so do you think they are going to just start handing out checks here, if so
where does the line start
since moving to pa I have had 1 employee (Chris) last over 2 years....or over 6 months mind you
and he still shows up late 90% of the time....
everyone else quit or got fired for being lazy, or just plain dumb
I have had almost 20 in that time frame, one of them being my own brother and yes I fired him too
and I pay almost double minimum wage....
Chris brings home more a week then his mom who has been a nurse here for like 9 years...
how is that even right? fuck if I know
the problem is much larger then the illegals but having a scapegoat (bin ladin/hussein) is the american way....
this is a nation of corporations and of religious freaks with more dollars then sense.
and we all need 60" plasma tv's to watch the big game this weekend after church
if you think that there are out of work auto plant workers who were making at least $20.00 an hour thanks to the union who want to go pick
strawberries in a field with no insurance, no 401k, no vacation, and get paid minimum wage, then you really gotta wake up a take a look around at what
this nation really is, a bunch of fat, lazy, selfish bastards...
if we can find someone to do our work for us for next to nothing, why do it ourselves...
we are above that.... we all nedd to be sitting in offices and sipping starbucks while juan does the yardwork and we get paid...
do I think they should be forced to go home....
fuck no becasue I want fresh food next week when I go shopping...
sorry I wirk to hard to pick my own food, and I sure as fuck don't make enough to pay an american to do it.
they should be forced to pay a fine, and register under a guest worker program while following channels to become citizens and the people who
employeed them illegally also pay a fine... but no so much you hurt industry
those funds can go straight back into the welfare system, unless some senator somewhere needs a new purse or a trip to europe or something important
this nation is fucked, for the simple fact that we the people are not in control and never will be again....
so who really cares if the guy next to you was born o nthe other side of a silly imaginary line or not....
he needs the same food, the same air and the same love that everyone else does...
but he doesn't speak the language so fuck him send him home
it must be his fault that we are supposed to be the smartest country on the planet yet most europeans speak at least 3 if not more languages, while we
can't even master our own...hell canadians speak more languages then we do
(and yes I suck at english give me german anyday)
do I have a point no
fuck you I gotta go work since I got no illegals or white trash fucks to work for me
and if they do open the borders like the EU, well hell fuck yeah
I am moving to canada, weed and free health care, and apparently all the screen printers there suck since I get so many orders down here, so money
everwhere
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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
12 million Mexicans doing the jobs at really low wages that Americans don't want to do, yeah kick em out. Pick your own crops.
I don't these people should be kicked out when they shouldn't have been let in to begin with. The politics and policing of the border was shit, and
now decades later you want to try to fix it & kick everyone out who got in because you were asleep at the wheel.
Deal with the ones you got, the ones who have been working & contributing for the past 10-20 years, and tighten up now for the future. Don't punish
those who are active members of society just because you fucked up in the first place. |
^^^^^^^ I hate that excuse. People here will pick those crops man. Thats ignorant bullshit from the company heads that want to pay the next to nothing
wages. They want maximum profit for no cost. Many people around here would jump at those jobs. Don't fool yourself bro. |
Americans won't do the jobs at the wages they love to pay. I don't even think its legal for Americans to get paid that little.
Canadian farms bring up Mexicans & Jamaicans in the summer to harvest all sorts of crops because there is a lack of workers willing to do the hard
work in the region. And this is at legal wages on par with fast food employees and shit like that. |
That's
the point though, NOBODY should be doing those jobs for that pay. It's illegal to pay that little for a reason. By hiring illegals to do those jobs
and refusing to pay a decent wage to ANYONE for doing that job, they create that self-fulfilling prophecy that says that Americans won't do those
jobs. We CAN'T do those jobs for that amount of money, therefore those jobs are being stolen from legal workers. Are they desirable jobs? No, but if
they paid legal wages I can guarantee you that legal workers would be signing up for them.
Veritas odium parit
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