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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by newbreedbrian
nah, a six year old has better taste in music.  |
You speak the truth, sir.
Veritas odium parit
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Siczine.com
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Damn you guys are laying it to poor Clevo.
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tireironsaint
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Like he hasn't been begging for it recently....
Veritas odium parit
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clevohardcore
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| Quote: | Originally posted by newbreedbrian
nah, a six year old has better taste in music. |
^^^^^^^^ AHAHAHAHAHA. 
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Like he hasn't been begging for it recently.... |
Ouch!
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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DaveMoral
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Poor clevo.
I still like to spin Strife once in a while, I just don't get the reunion thing. Sing songs that have absolutely no meaning for you anymore just to
bring in some bank off 90s hardcore fogeys looking for some nostalgia. Bothers me.
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Six66Mike
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Who wants to donate money to my plane trip home to see this?
Reign Supreme has just been added to Toronto, not sure if they're on the other shows or not.
Toronto is now Strife, Reign Supreme, To The Lionas + tba still.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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clevohardcore
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The STRIFE shows used to bring the mosh.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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squanto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Poor clevo.
I still like to spin Strife once in a while, I just don't get the reunion thing. Sing songs that have absolutely no meaning for you anymore just to
bring in some bank off 90s hardcore fogeys looking for some nostalgia. Bothers me. |
Yeah most of them broke edge a long time ago. In this defiance was good but like others have said they got too metal.
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Six66Mike
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Final line up for Toronto posted;
Sunday May 11, 2008
Toronto, Ontario
California Hardcore Legends
STRIFE
(first Toronto show in 11 years. Original lineup. Playing songs off One Truth and In This Defiance. One of Three East Coast Shows.)
REIGN SUPREME
(philadelphia hardcore. ex-blacklist. deathwishinc records)
FIRED UP
(connecticut hardcore. members of the first step. youngblood records)
TO THE LIONS
(ex-grade/confine. goodfellow records)
MILLENIAL REIGN
(3/5 no warning with damian of fucked up on vocals. 1917 records)
@the kathedral (651 queen st w)
7pm. $15 at the door.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Discipline
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I'll pass. Plus, I don't think Strife have ever been considered "legendary." It's not like they're NA or Black Flack or something.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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clevohardcore
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STRIFE kicks ass. TO bring up NA or BF is crazy. No comparison being made by me. I am a fan of all those bands.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Six66Mike
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I'd go simply to see Strife to re-live the glory days, and for Reign Supreme and Millenial Reign because they both sound damn good. Haven't heard
enough Fired Up or To The Lions but what I did hear I liked.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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Discipline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
STRIFE kicks ass. TO bring up NA or BF is crazy. No comparison being made by me. I am a fan of all those bands. |
The ads are saying "California Hardcore Legends Strife" which is why I brought up NA and Black Flag. Bands like that are what I consider legendary
hardcore bands, not Strife.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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DaveMoral
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^For the crowd Strife is playing to they ARE legends.
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tireironsaint
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The crowd Strife plays to should be sterilized.
Veritas odium parit
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Siczine.com
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
To The Lions but what I did hear I liked. |
Love those dudes. One of my favorite new bands no doubt.
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
The crowd Strife plays to should be sterilized. |
You know, this is the kind of doucebaggery that makes hardcore suck. It's not just the new jack kids that ruin shit for everyone, it's bitter old
dudes with stupid opinions like this too.
I came into hardcore listening to Strife and Earth Crisis, as well as Warzone and AF and DK and Minor Threat. Being the only straight edge bands
really active during that time, EC and Strife let me see how I could take pride in living drug free where before I got into hardcore not drinking and
doing drugs meant I wasn't "cool." Sorry I wasn't a disenfranchised teenager in the right decade for you. The only reason I'm not stoked about these
reunion shows is because half of the Strife guys aren't even straight edge anymore and it just seems like a cynical attempt to make some money off
people like me.
Which brings me to another thing: what's this bullshit about not liking "EC's kind of straight edge?" Near as I can tell, straight edge(rs) has been
loved and hated since Minor Threat sang about it. If it wasn't just the general "holier than thou" attitude of considering druggies "living dead" it
was the Boston Crew's generally disdainful and often militant attitude towards non-edge people. Onto the youth crew era when YOT and them were
loved/hated. Judge has some pretty militant lyrics about non-edge people. Project X was started to be the tongue-in-cheek over-the-top band that
everyone was already assuming straight edge kids were at that time. It's one thing to not like the music of a band, and not like them if you don't
agree with their veganism or something. Maybe you just weren't zealous when EC and the like came around... but don't try to play it like straight edge
was this pristine little sub-subculture in punk/hardcore before 1990. It wasn't.
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tireironsaint
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First off, it's spelled "douchebaggery".
Secondly, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine, you may disagree with it, but it's far from stupid. That particular comment was
meant as a joke anyway, so lighten the fuck up before you condemn me for being whatever warped image you have of who I am. You don't know me and have
no basis to get all pissy about my offhand comments on a message board. Pull the stick out of your ass if you can unclench it long enough sometime.
When I sobered up I got into a lot of SxE bands that I still have a soft spot for even if I now see them as rather ridiculous. Some of them I even
still enjoy musically, but I'm not gonna get bent out of shape if somebody I don't know outside of a message board pokes fun at them, I can appreciate
the humor and what would be the point in flipping out over it anyway? Personally, I try to take the people I meet for who and what they are and not
whether they support the right bands. I could care less what you came up listening to or what decade it was, and that's aside from the fact that my
post was never directed at you in any way. If anything, I figured you would have appreciated the joke since you seemed to be one of the people who
found this tour most offensive. I guess I was wrong, or maybe you just have no sense of humor, either way, no skin off my back.
How is it "bullshit" for me to not like their kind of anything? It's my fucking right to like or dislike whatever I choose for whatever reason I see
fit, but for a band to take a stand in favor of fascist tactics to enforce what was always meant to be a personal choice is fucking ignorant and more
than enough reason for me to dislike them. Where did I ever claim anything about a so-called "pristine little sub-culture"? You seem to be incredibly
talented at reading volumes into my statements, maybe you should stick to reading what I actually write instead of attempting to read my mind. I've
NEVER believed that Straight Edge was some kind of perfect answer or that everyone involved saw it the same way I did, but that doesn't mean that I
have to agree with everybody who tries to turn it into a set of rules for the rest of the world. It's a personal choice and nothing more to me. If
somebody thinks they have the best interests of the whole world all figured out and that they should be able to force their ideas on everyone else
just because they honestly think it's right, chances are 100% that I think they're fucking assholes who should mind their own goddamn business no
matter who they are or what they stand for, whether I agree with their basic ideas for myself or not.
Veritas odium parit
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DaveMoral
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See, your problem is that you've wildly mis-interpretted anything Earth Crisis ever said in the first place. I mean, where do you get off attributing
to them something that's not there?
I can see your attitude perhaps towards their particular stance on veganism, but then I'd think you could understand the anger that one might feel
towards what is perceived(wrongly or rightly) as a grave injustice worthy of being stood against by any means. In which case, their militancy has only
ever been lyrically aimed at the industry which exploits animals for profit. The one song that Earth Crisis has ever recorded that is blatant straight
edge militancy is Firestorm... and that song is virulence directed at people peddling drugs on the streets to kids and the violence associated with
the drug trade that endangers bystanders. So it's fascist to want to take streets back from those making them dangerous by vigilantism? I don't think
so, but maybe you're the "law and order" type that doesn't feel it's the right of citizens to do something where law enforcement fails miserably. I
don't know, but you'd be misreading the lyrics to that song if you thought it was aimed at any one or anything other than that. You just come off like
you've got this "back in the day" idea of what straight edge is or was or should be. There's asshole straight edge kids today like there were in 83.
Same as there were crews beating people up and fighting in those days. Musics more metal now than it was then, that's about the only difference.
Believe me, I'm not as worked up about this as you might think. I just think this whole line of old hardcore people bitching thing has gotten old. For
myself included. Guess that's why I just don't really care anymore. It's about the least interesting thing in the world to me.
As for your rediculous "strelized" comment, it certainly doesn't come off as a joke when your lob so much vitriol around towards a particular band or
the group of people that like that band. I've never known Strife to be associated with the whole militant straight edge thing myself. When it came to
those sorts of songs their lyrical content alwasy came off as being more "posi" than angry/militant. So I just don't get it. While I find this whole
reunion thing to be cynical I don't think lowly of the dudes that will go check it out for old times sake. I find it somewhat insulting to have my
entire experience of hardcore undermined by some old fart's "my hardcore was the real hardcore, and everything that you think is hardcore is wrong"
attitude. That sucks. I'd wager I feel the same way about the hardcore of my era as you do about your's.
BTW, correcting someone's spelling is about the lowest form of rebuttal I can think of.
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clevohardcore
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Like or dislike STRIFE still kick ass. PEACE OUT!
O wait before I PEACE OUT let me say I like both of you. Don't take stuff personal. People ramble at the keyboard and say crazy shit. Like "Strife
sucks". I mean seriously, who in the world could possibly think that? Basically there is only ONE TRUTH and that is we are all cool with each other on
THORP. Let's keep it that way.
SO PEACE OUT to all and to all a good jam session in the car to ONE TRUTH! or DAMAGED or whatever floats your boat.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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tireironsaint
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Dave, if I've wildly misinterpreted anything they've said it's because they've wildly misrepresented themselves in their lyrics and interviews. The
song's name alone is a reference to a tactic more or less created by the nazi regime, they might as well have just called themselves Straight Edge
Stormtroopers to achieve the same inference. Perhaps my understanding of the lyrics to Firestorm are not exactly what they had intended, but it's not
exactly a vague song and doesn't seem to be limited in the ways you suggest. "No mercy, no exceptions, a declaration of total war" doesn't sound like
they've got any moderation in their stance to me. Sure, it's entirely possible that they meant to portray an oversized, cartoonish example to get a
point across, but it sounds pretty straight forward to me. Can I read their mind to know their exact intentions? Of course not, but when you put
something like this out there you are obviously setting yourself up to be understood on the level it's set forth on.
Maybe I do have a "back in the day" idea, but I'm well aware that it represents my idea of what SxE means/meant to me and my friends and not
necessarily what it was or is like anywhere else or even to anybody else. We all have to interpret things through the filter of our own experiences
and perceptions, don't we? I'm certainly the last person to deny that there are and always have been assholes in the scene or anywhere else, so I'm
really not sure why you have this idea stuck in your head that I believe that it was some utopian ideal up until these bands came along. I will admit,
my personal ideology in regard to SxE is much more in line with the lyrics of Minor Threat than with any of the militant stuff, so maybe that's what
you're picking up on. It's all about personal choice and not a set of rules to me, I don't understand the reasoning in trying to convert the whole
world to my way of thinking. It works for me, but nothing works the same way for everybody across the board. Militancy about almost anything seems
pretty silly to me and in my experience, the hardest, most militant people are always the ones to swing back the furthest in the opposite direction. I
do see an enormous difference between then and now in terms of Hard Core though and I'm not just talking about the sound. I see very little of the
mentality that made me feel like I had found a home in what's around now. Maybe you never encountered that feeling in any scene you were involved in,
but I certainly did and I find it sad that there's nothing resembling that in Hard Core anymore. Well, maybe not absolutely nothing, but it's a
definite rarity nowadays.
So you think I really feel that everyone who goes to a Strife show should be forced to undergo sterilization? Come on, you're smart enough to
recognize a sarcastic comment when you see one. I certainly wasn't lumping Strife in with the militant scene either, I just think they're a terrible
band who appear to be attempting to cash in on something they don't even believe in. Do I think everyone who listens to them is a "bad person"? No,
but I would probably make fun of a friend of mine for going to one of these shows for the reason I just outlined. I don't know about you, but I joke
around with my friends about anything and everything and they do the same with me, that's just part of friendship in my world. As far as the "my Hard
Core is the real deal" thing, you might dislike hearing that, but the shit that goes under the Hard Core name today has little to no connection to
what it meant or even what it sounded like. Call me what you like, I could care less, but it's not the same thing and it doesn't even rate mention as
a pale imitation. Take a look at those threads that were on here not too long ago talking about why certain bands ruled, there's not a single band
today that can hold a candle to any of the bands mentioned there. It's not the same thing now and all it should take is a listen or a viewing of a
video to prove that to anyone. Like what you wanna like and believe in what you believe in, but I'm of the opinion that when you have two very
different things, they should have different names.
As for correcting your spelling, I have to point out your lack of a sense of humor again. How can you not see it as a joke when the word I correct for
you is the name you called me? I basically helped you call me a douchebag and now you get offended by that too. Lighten up and laugh at the world once
in a while, you'll feel a hell of a lot better, I promise.
Veritas odium parit
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Dave, if I've wildly misinterpreted anything they've said it's because they've wildly misrepresented themselves in their lyrics and interviews. The
song's name alone is a reference to a tactic more or less created by the nazi regime, they might as well have just called themselves Straight Edge
Stormtroopers to achieve the same inference. Perhaps my understanding of the lyrics to Firestorm are not exactly what they had intended, but it's not
exactly a vague song and doesn't seem to be limited in the ways you suggest. "No mercy, no exceptions, a declaration of total war" doesn't sound like
they've got any moderation in their stance to me. Sure, it's entirely possible that they meant to portray an oversized, cartoonish example to get a
point across, but it sounds pretty straight forward to me. Can I read their mind to know their exact intentions? Of course not, but when you put
something like this out there you are obviously setting yourself up to be understood on the level it's set forth on. |
I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure the song goes on to specify "corrupt politicians, corrupt enforcement. Drug lords and dealers, all must
fall." That, to me, narrows the field quite a bit.
| Quote: | | Maybe I do have a "back in the day" idea, but I'm well aware that it represents my idea of what SxE means/meant to me and my friends and not
necessarily what it was or is like anywhere else or even to anybody else. We all have to interpret things through the filter of our own experiences
and perceptions, don't we? I'm certainly the last person to deny that there are and always have been assholes in the scene or anywhere else, so I'm
really not sure why you have this idea stuck in your head that I believe that it was some utopian ideal up until these bands came along. I will admit,
my personal ideology in regard to SxE is much more in line with the lyrics of Minor Threat than with any of the militant stuff, so maybe that's what
you're picking up on. It's all about personal choice and not a set of rules to me, I don't understand the reasoning in trying to convert the whole
world to my way of thinking. It works for me, but nothing works the same way for everybody across the board. Militancy about almost anything seems
pretty silly to me and in my experience, the hardest, most militant people are always the ones to swing back the furthest in the opposite direction. I
do see an enormous difference between then and now in terms of Hard Core though and I'm not just talking about the sound. I see very little of the
mentality that made me feel like I had found a home in what's around now. Maybe you never encountered that feeling in any scene you were involved in,
but I certainly did and I find it sad that there's nothing resembling that in Hard Core anymore. Well, maybe not absolutely nothing, but it's a
definite rarity nowadays. |
That's the thing dude, I did feel at home in the hardcore scene I came into. Very at home. Found the tightest friends I've ever had within that same
hardcore scene. Even dudes I didn't particularly get along with the majority of time I'd stick up for against "outsiders" so to speak. I came from a
small town with a very small scene mostly full of Christians that I didn't even agree with... wedged between Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland and
Indianapolis. It was good times, and I'd wager the feeling you talk about I had too.
| Quote: | | So you think I really feel that everyone who goes to a Strife show should be forced to undergo sterilization? Come on, you're smart enough to
recognize a sarcastic comment when you see one. I certainly wasn't lumping Strife in with the militant scene either, I just think they're a terrible
band who appear to be attempting to cash in on something they don't even believe in. Do I think everyone who listens to them is a "bad person"? No,
but I would probably make fun of a friend of mine for going to one of these shows for the reason I just outlined. I don't know about you, but I joke
around with my friends about anything and everything and they do the same with me, that's just part of friendship in my world. As far as the "my Hard
Core is the real deal" thing, you might dislike hearing that, but the shit that goes under the Hard Core name today has little to no connection to
what it meant or even what it sounded like. Call me what you like, I could care less, but it's not the same thing and it doesn't even rate mention as
a pale imitation. Take a look at those threads that were on here not too long ago talking about why certain bands ruled, there's not a single band
today that can hold a candle to any of the bands mentioned there. It's not the same thing now and all it should take is a listen or a viewing of a
video to prove that to anyone. Like what you wanna like and believe in what you believe in, but I'm of the opinion that when you have two very
different things, they should have different names. |
I don't think you mean they should be sterlized literally, I just think it's a shitty attitude. Like it or not, you wouldn't say shit like that if you
didn't think someone that liked Strife is an idiot in some way. I'm just saying, it's that kind of elitist attitude about hardcore and bands that's
sort of ruined the scene. It ruined it for me years ago, and I was like that alot. I'm like that now about alot of the shit that gets passed off as
hardcore and isn't even hardcore according to the standards of 1999. As for the whole debate about what is and is not hardcore... dude, when I trace
the history of hardcore back and listen to the highlights of the past 30 years I see a progression and evolution. It's easy to see how you get Madball
or any number of their imitators from the earliest NYHC bands. That evolution of sound dominates today because all the other scenes died off while NY
bloomed late and never really went away. Like it's mindboggling to me that you hate Madball and their like but are into NSK and Sheer Terror. There's
almost nothing about either of those bands sound that's all that different from Madball. Maybe I just don't know what real hardcore is, but I hear the
sound progression/evolution over the years... and I know I felt the same way about my first few years in the hardcore scene as all the pioneers from
the 80s talked about it in American Hardcore. So when you say shit like that I'm confused as hell.
| Quote: | | As for correcting your spelling, I have to point out your lack of a sense of humor again. How can you not see it as a joke when the word I correct for
you is the name you called me? I basically helped you call me a douchebag and now you get offended by that too. Lighten up and laugh at the world once
in a while, you'll feel a hell of a lot better, I promise. |
Hey, somedays I'm a little touchy. I've got plenty of time to think and muse on shit when I'm at work. Most days I do laugh at the world. Plus sarcasm
doesn't translate well over the interweb.
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tireironsaint
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You may very well be right, but most people I've talked to about this song interpret it in a very across the board militant sense and that seems to
fit pretty well with the way the band portrays themselves in interviews and such. Like I said, I have no idea what exact thoughts are behind the song,
but I do know how it comes across to me and that's not something I want any part of.
It sounds to me like you did have a similar experience to mine and I'm glad to hear that. Too many people I talk to who are just a few years younger
than me have never felt that way at all and have no idea it could ever have been that way, so I'm happy to hear it when people tell me they did go
through that.
Maybe we're looking at the same thing and giving it different names here. I don't necessarily think that every Strife fan is some kind of idiot, but I
do think they have some amount of bad taste in music. If that makes them an idiot in your book then I guess that's what I mean. I don't think there's
anything wrong with having strong opinions on music and such, that makes things stronger by my way of thinking. Much like someone who runs a certain
type of restaurant would need to know what types of food he likes and dislikes and what belongs there and what doesn't for the restaurant to succeed,
I believe that knowing what is good and bad and what does and doesn't belong in Hard Core is a good and useful thing. Maybe that makes me an elitist
snob, but you know what? I couldn't care less. Has there been a progression of sorts in the sound of Hard Core? I suppose it's safe to say that, but
instead of branching out and growing in a healthy way, it's funneled down to where everything out there now sounds like yet another version of the
same shit that was pretty fucking boring to begin with. Where there used to be a highly creative and broad range of styles that were all together
under one banner because of their attitude, spirit, views, and so on, now we have endless carbon copies of the same shitty metal with lyrics about
beating people down for a variety of stupid reasons. While I truly love the sound of what I consider Hard Core, that aspect of the music was always
secondary to me. I'm much more interested in what they had/have to say and how it's being put across than whether they're playing some "crucial
breakdowns" if you follow me. While you might hear some similarities between Sheer Terror and Madball, I honestly don't. I'm not listening so much to
the riffs and style laid down by the guitarist as I am to the ideas and mentality being spouted by the vocalist. I'm looking for a mentality I can
relate to, a sense of humor that helps put the world in perspective again when all I wanna do is smash everything I see.
Veritas odium parit
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
Posts: 12139
Registered: 4-21-2005
Location: 1902666
Member Is Offline
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I might be needing a lawyer sooner or later and would like to hire one of you guys for the job because I think I may have a chance at winning by a
mile if I had someone like yous to argue in my defense . ....if any of what I'm saying makes any sense, it was meant to be a compliment....
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