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moron
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Schiavo mess in Florida
Im sure most people have heard about this lady.
What a fucking mess of a situation. At first I was totally on the side of the husband because I believe that a person should have the right to choose
if they want to live or not, but the more I hear about this the more Im glad I dont have to be involved in this mess. Who really knows if this lady
really told her husband that she wouldnt want to live if she was a vegetable, and so then who's orders should the doctors follow? The husband or the
family?
I know what my wishes are in that situation, but what if the family is right and this lady had religious beliefs that would make her go against
removing her feeding tube. I do find it absurd that the family thinks this lady will actually get better when the doctors say that she'll be like
that forever.
what does the Thorp board think about this? These types of threads usually seem to fail, but I figured I'd give it a shot.
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BDx13
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moron, you're absolutely right, this is a mess. i mean, being in a coma is one thing - people can come out of them, even after years - but from what
i understand, i don't think there's any recovering from being in a 'persistent vegetative state'.
the whole 'religious beliefs' element is likely to make this argument the most difficult, because that is what will really bring the politicians out
in droves. and whose to say what her beliefs were? i know a ton of people who tell their parents one thing about their beliefs, but live the
complete opposite. i mean who are the parents, or even the spouse, to say?
several years ago, one of my best friends died of a heroin overdose. a few weeks later, i was discussing this person's passing with an equally close
friend, who is also a devout christian. during our conversation, he declared that our friend had gone to hell. (there's really no sugar coating that
one, is there?!). when i countered, with the ol' "well, how do you know, and who are you to say?", his response was "he hadn't accepted christ into
his life, and he didn't live a christian lifestyle."
now, i was raised as a catholic, and as i recall their rules, so long as you confess your sins, and welcome christ into your life, then you're free to
enjoy the spoils of eternal salvation, even if you make that move at the last minute. (feel free to correct me if this is inaccurate; it's been a
while). now clearly, that's not meant to be how the game is played, but technically, our boy could have hit that needle, realized something was very
wrong, and embraced the lord with a quickness at the very end.
but you know what, we'll never know. i understand why my christian friend believes what he does, but again, he can not claim to know what our
friend's dying thoughts were, and subsequentially, his final destination. and that's kind of the point with ms. schiavo... if people are going to
play the religion card, who are any of us to say what her position was? if she had a relationship with god, it was hers and hers alone up until the
last minute the had the faculties to maintain it.
more about the religious argument here
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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moron
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Sounds like her parents are just trying to be good Catholics I guess, but what I wonder is how a judge will decide who can legally make the decisions
for Schiavo: her husband or her family. Neither was assigned as her health care proxy, so does it automatically default to the husband?
I had also wondered why the Federal government has gotten so involved in this personal matter. The only thing I can come up with is that the family
is saying that Schiavo's civil rights are being violated... at least that's what I think Ive heard. From what I understand they're arguing that
Schiavo was never given the right to her own attorney. Im not really sure how an attorney would advocate on behalf of a client who can't communicate.
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moron
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the article Duane linked to was really interesting. It sort of touches upon the different ideas of what "life" is according to different religions.
It seems that Catholics are the most strict, so it's really no suprise that priests would show their support for the family. If they didnt they
wouldnt be doing their jobs as Catholic priests. Im still confused about why Congress and the President got so involved in this though.
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BDx13
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| Quote: | Originally posted by moron
Im still confused about why Congress and the President got so involved in this though. |
the 'moral majority' that is the heartland of this country.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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GabeTexasGAMC
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I have no idea why this guy is insiting... He looks to inherit ever medical bill that shes gained since being in a coma... if he was to divorce her
while she was alive, he wouldnt have to pay. SO... that being said, it seems he really seems to be doing it out of love, or whatever, and the parents
are suffering, having to watch their daughter starve to death. They check the parents before going in for ice chips or rags that might have water...
sad as hell.
what the fuck are we as americans now? This is entertainment?
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moron
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from what I understand, he and his wife won a malpractice settlement and that's what's paying the doctor bills. I dont know if the money is running
out and that's why he wants to pull the plug or if he's really thinking of her wishes. Who am I to say anyway...
And I dont think this is really entertainment. I think it's more of an issue that forces people to reevaluate their own beliefs. This whole
situation is really fucking sad, but hopefully it will help people realize that they should talk about what their wishes are with family members,
write living wills and appoint health care proxies so this doesnt happen to other people. Unfortunately I dont think that most people take the time
to understand the complexity of this situation. I was in the corner store yesterday getting breakfast and some lady started talking about this when
it came on the TV. She was saying "Just put the feeding tube back in and leave the family alone!" when it's really the family who made the fuss in
the first place.
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CR83
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I think Duane hit it on the head Man. It really comes down to faith and what that actually is for you. I know what works for me but I'd never try
and make that the way it should be for anyone else. This whole thing is a mess. I feel bad for all involved. This is a great reason why you should
get a Will drawn up. It will take care of everything for you if handled properly. If it was around election time right now this thing would be even
worse I bet.
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MyOwnWay
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Its a terrible situation.
BUT!
What is a life when shes a vegetable. People say she could still live just with the feeding tube. She breathes on her won. But she is a immobile.
Unable to communicate.
BUT!
Being a parent I can see their side of clinging to every last glimmer of hope. Its been 15 years though, they should have let her go in peace, before
all this shit started.
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BDx13
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i honestly can't believe this shit.
Gov. Bush Seeks to Take Custody of Schiavo
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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moron
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like the article says, what right does he have to become guardian over this lady?
The link to the Christian Science Monitor article does a really good job of discussing all of the issues thoroughly on this case. I know they have a reputation
of being very fair and unbiased, and they pretty much say that Congress and the President overstepped their jurisdiction by meddling in something that
has nothing to do with Federal Law and now it looks like Jeb Bush is just trying to use strongarm tactics to push his views into a situation that
doesnt and shouldnt involve him. Of course that's just one of the pieces of this whole thing the article talks about, but I had forgotten about the
Christian Science Monitor. I need to read it more often.
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BDx13
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OH MY FUCKING GOD
Man Tries to Steal Gun to 'Rescue Schiavo'
this fuck tried to rob a GUN STORE with a BOX CUTTER!
seriously, this case is bringing out the craziest kooks we got!
admittedly, this is a terrible way to die. but, obviously, you can argue it was a terrible way to live, but for god's sake, give this woman some
peace and an ounce of dignity!
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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defstarsteve
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starving to death would suck....
let them jsut shoot her up with morphine and not feel it....
if your as good as dead, I'd rather see you that way, and rmember the good times, then have to deal withthe pain of your suffering
but the husband is a scum bag....
everyone get a fucking will, and save your family from this bullshit
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moron
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Im not a doctor, but does a person in a vegetative state even know theyre dying? Do they know theyre thirsty or hungry? If not, is that really
suffering?
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SkarryJosh
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This shit seriously makes me Ill. There is no reason it shoulda been takin this far. Its nobodys business but the Parents and the Husband. I think If
you want to say anything on this case you should know the facts.
Its mainly Far Right Wing Christian Kooks pushing theyre right to life Agenda. Now that poor woman is nothing but a Postergirl pet rock for these
sick peoples political agenda.
Sad.
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gavin
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SkarryJosh
This shit seriously makes me Ill. There is no reason it shoulda been takin this far. Its nobodys business but the Parents and the Husband. I think If
you want to say anything on this case you should know the facts.
Its mainly Far Right Wing Christian Kooks pushing theyre right to life Agenda. Now that poor woman is nothing but a Postergirl pet rock for these
sick peoples political agenda.
Sad. |
im no right wing christian by any means and i think she should have been kept alive
what do ya make of that?!?!?!
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TTF
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If you want to check out a really great book about dying, and what happens to the human body as your dying, you should check out this book.
If the link doesn't work the book is called 'How We Die' and it's really a remarkable book and dispels of the myth of dying with dignity. Having seen
people die, there ain't nothing dignified about it. As far as the Schiavo chick, I don't think there's a strong medical consensus on whether she
really is 'brain dead' and that's what is complicating this thing. I really don't give a fuck what happens to her, I've got my own problems. Sad
situation but not my affair.
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BDx13
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todd - fixed the link up for ya. i've heard of 'How WeDie' before, but my attention span and leisure time are both pretty limited, so i don't read
many books.
when i suggested that ms. schiavo be left to die with some dignity, i only meant that she be allowed to do it so of the public eye and with a few
fewer people hovering around her. as has been mentioned, i'm sure dying by any means isn't pretty.
my grandmother had alzheimer's and passed away about a year ago. after years of getting progressively worse, one day she finally stopped taking her
medicine, stopped eating and stopped drinking. lucky for her, she was at her home, with her family the entire time. it still took her almost two
(very long) weeks to pass away.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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TTF
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I wasn't going after you, BD. Yeah, to have to die on tv is pretty fucking miserable and the news media should stop exploiting the fuck out of her.
How many innocent little kids do you think have died since they started their round the clock reporting? How many people have done really heroic
things in that time? I really don't have an opinion on whether she lives or dies, I don't have an answer. It's sad that her husband said today that
she looks like she is at peace or something (which flies in the face oa permanent veg. state diagnosis), and her parents say that she's telling them
that she doesn't want to do. Both sides are in horrible fucking agony and are seeing what they would like to see, more than likely, but either way
you slice it, the whole thing blows, alive or dead. Maybe you should call me and I'll read that book to you before bed. Some warm milk, some
cookies, and 'How We Die'. U2U me about the ep business if you get a chance. Positive Youth, I'm the Youth of Today...
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SAAAAARS
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i didn't read everything everyone said, but i definitely know if i couldn't do shit for the rest of my life, i would want to just die. what's the
point of living? if she was stuck in the hospital for the rest of her life, but could still speak, or communicate in any way, or do anything, i'd
understand why this is so rough.
i got in a debate about it with my friends mom yesterday for over an hour. this whole thing really frustrates me.
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LilOz
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Terri is on myspace.
somebody has too much free time on their hands.
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moron
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This is great
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB02JH1U6E.html
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brooklyn
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sad how a tragic situation of 1 woman and her heartbroken man has become a political, religious, legal issue.
All these fanatics should go home and bake beans. Leave it up to the husband. he married her and stood by her for all these every long years she was
semi-dead in bed. And to those religious fools who send their kids into the hospital with bottles of water. That's child abuse. Using your own flesh
and blood for your religious propaganda is a big shame.
And if the US stands for a democratic, legal nation, but SHUT UP and go home , now that the courts have ruled and ruled again and ruled again. If ya
want to run a sicoiety by the bible (or any other religion) go back to the 15th century!
T.C.O.B.
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BDx13
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i just read that the husband, while not divorced from terri, has been living with another woman, with whom he has children (i believe), for several
years. kinda sheds a different light on the ol' "who gets the say" argument, don't it?
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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SAAAAARS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Big Duane
i just read that the husband, while not divorced from terri, has been living with another woman, with whom he has children (i believe), for several
years. kinda sheds a different light on the ol' "who gets the say" argument, don't it? |
he stood by his wife for the first 7 years before he looked at another woman. he was trained so that he could take care of her himself. are you
telling me if your wife was a bed ridden vegitable that couldn't communicate, you would sit and wait forever?
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