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Bush signs controversial anti-piracy law
forfeiture of property is my favorite.
if the riaa can't get your money, they'll take your shit.
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE49C7EI20081013...
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush signed into law on Monday a controversial bill that would stiffen penalties for movie and music piracy
at the federal level.
The law creates an intellectual property czar who will report directly to the president on how to better protect copyrights both domestically and
internationally. The Justice Department had argued that the creation of this position would undermine its authority.
The law also toughens criminal laws against piracy and counterfeiting, although critics have argued that the measure goes too far and risks punishing
people who have not infringed.
The Recording Industry Association of America and Motion Picture Association of America backed the bill, as did the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
"By becoming law, the PRO-IP Act sends the message to IP criminals everywhere that the U.S. will go the extra mile to protect American innovation,"
said Tom Donohue, president and CEO of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Counterfeiting and piracy costs the United States nearly $250 billion annually, according to the U.S. Chamber of Commerce.
Rick Cotton, general counsel for NBC Universal, said the bill would give movie and music makers more tools to fight what he called a "tidal wave" of
counterfeiting and piracy of everything from medical devices to automobile parts to media by organized crime.
"That is at the core of what this discussion is about," he said. "It is not about teenagers."
Cotton said he did not expect an IP czar to be named before Bush's term ended in January.
Richard Esguerra, spokesman for the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said he was relieved to see lawmakers had stripped out a measure to have the
Justice Department file civil lawsuits against pirates, which would have made the attorneys "pro bono personal lawyers for the content industry."
But the advocacy group Public Knowledge had argued that the law went too far, especially given that fair use of copyrighted material was already
shrinking.
Public Knowledge particularly opposed a measure that allowed for the forfeiture of devices used in piracy.
"Let's suppose that there's one computer in the house, and one person uses it for downloads and one for homework. The whole computer goes," said
Public Knowledge spokesman Art Brodsky.
Brodsky argued that, at best, the bill was unnecessary because the recording and movie industry had the right to take accused infringers to court.
"There's already lots and lots of penalties for copyright violations," he said. "They've got all the tools they need."
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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Mark Lind
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This needed to be done.
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random
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mark Lind
This needed to be done. |
No, it didn't. For all this bullshit about "protecting American innovation," they ignore the fact that much of the innovation is by computer nerds
without a profit motive. Napster? Last time I checked, there's a lot of money being made by RIAA-affiliated companies selling mp3s legally through
Amazon, iTunes, and others. Devices to play those mp3s? They're making money off those, too.
The fact of the matter is that harsher measures are not going to make the problem go away. The entertainment industry needs to adapt to new
technologies, and I have no doubt that they will. This sounds an awful lot like seizing grandma's house because little Johnny is selling a little bit
of weed to his friends and keeps his stash inside the house.
But the real problem here has nothing to do with piracy... it has to do with privacy. You'd be hard pressed to convince me that either the federal
government or the RIAA should have an easier time finding out what Wikipedia entries, porn, or questionable political site I look at by waiving a
subpoena in front of whatever massive telecom company or university I get my internet service from. You want to tell me that they don't already have
pretty easy access as it stands now? Remember when the PATRIOT Act was "only about terrorism"? I have no sympathy for organized crime or drug
traffickers, but what the fuck is a piece of anti-terrorism legislation that severely curtails liberty doing in organized crime and drug cases?
There's already plenty of leverage for the government and RIAA to use in pursuit of piracy. But this kind of bush league crap looks more like an
effort to harass normal people into going back to the theater or Best Buy and dropping $15 than it is about shutting down major piracy. And it's
going to be as effective the same approach has been in the War on Drugs.
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random
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And one example of good innovation that shows how industry does evolve - Hulu and broadcasts on major television station websites like NBC and Fox.
They were huge fears that DVR would spell the end of advertising revenue as we know it... but the companies found a new way. You watch high-quality
streams on the internet "for free" while NBC makes money off of me sitting through embedded commercials.
This is how the entertainment industry is going to have to respond in the long run... and this is real innovation.
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XHonusWagnerX
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This seems pretty shitty... but I guess on some level I understand it.
I do feel like I should be able to 'share' a CD with my friends... I guess the question is where is the 'friends' line drawn?
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Siczine.com
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I agree with Random.
And this is like the Patriot Act. Whenever I get into a discussion with my one friend about that he always says well if you don't do anything, you
have nothing to worry about. That's not the point.
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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Siczine.com
if you don't do anything, you have nothing to worry about. |
Tell your friend thats not even true. I'm sure that some of us are on some list for buying some tagged book or record from a watched website. Anyone
here own The Turner Diarys or the Anarchist Cookbook? If you do.... they know!
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Mark Lind
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This file sharing debate needs to end once and for all. This will dissuade a lot of people from doing it. I guess I might change my mind if it is
actually put into action but people need to stop thinking it's their god given right to take things from people. It just isn't true and we're in a
transitional phase right now where the technology makes possible things that aren't really in a person's character normally. For example, how many
college nerds that file share would walk into Tower Records and try to walk out with a CD or DVD? Probably about 0% of them. There needs to be a line
drawn in the sand. We're not entitled to take just because we want. That's like some Lord of the Flies shit.
From the standpoint of a guy that releases records, I don't care about file sharing. Go crazy and do it. Hell, it can help spread the word. But from
the standpoint of a member of society, someone has to put a foot down on these people. Again, I might change my tune when they take someone's house
but I'd like to think it will make people chill out instead.
It bothers me when I make a plan to go to a store and buy a CD or DVD with my money because it's the right thing to do. And then some chowder head
will just say "oh I will just download it tonight from torrent". That's not the right thing to do.
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gavin
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i'll say it again for the 1000th time.........
it's the moder day version of trading tapes with friends.
how many times back when you were a kid did you dub a tape or lp for a friend?
how many times did you copy a 5th or 6th generation copy of something from a friend?
like it or not, it's the exact same thing but on a HUGE level.
i'm sure every single one of us did the trading tapes thing when they were a kid and if we were kids now we would be downloading everything like crazy
because that's the modern day equivilent of it.
by the way ......go to thebadvibes.net and download everything we recorded ever including the artwork for free.
you come at the king....you best not miss
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gavin
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and also, the fact that record distro co. and lables and store jack up the prices so much makes it near impossible for everyday people to buy music
like they used to.
i worked in record retail for over 15 years working in small indie store and as managment in tower records.
over the course of that time i saw it change as the internet became more and more relevant.
i know how much this stuff costs.
and i know how much the price gets jacked up.
and i know how much the bands are making off of their own stuff.
much of this downloading and whatnot is a reaction to these insane prices.
even if the people doing the downloading dont realize it.
you come at the king....you best not miss
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Six66Mike
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I can't argue with random or gavin because I agree with both of them 
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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DaveMoral
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From what I understand most artists aren't even really making a full dollar off any given CD.
While I agree, to a certain extent, with Mark here... about people needing to not think they are entitled to something just because they want it... I
can't agree with this law. It's all sorts of violation. It all depends on what you think is more important. Companies making a buck, and mind you it's
not the indie labels that seem to be sweating this shit as much as it is the big corporate goons that put out shit like Metallica or the latest crunk
hit by Lil Jon.
It's tape trading and mix tapes on the internet. Whether it was a bunch of top 40 tunes you dubbed off the radio when you were a kid, or a tape of an
EP or LP you got from your pal that was introducing you to punk rock... it's the same thing. Punk managed to survive that, I think it'll manage to
survive this.
Besides, isn't copyright violation more like a dude trying to make a buck off another person's product? I don't know how most of these P2P things
work... but soulseek didn't charge me nothing to use their service and I don't have any pop-up adds or anything like that on there so I can't for the
life of me figure out how the creators of the program and network could possibly be making a buck off it. All they are doing is facilitating the
sharing of files. I'm not sure how that violates copyright law anymore than dubbing tapes for friends or you know... making VHS copies of movies for
friends, or taping TV shows off the TV!
Some of these websites like megavideo and YouTube I can see how they'd be in violation, especially if they've got sponsored ads on the site. They are
making a buck by letting folks post copywritten material so it gets taken down or they get fined. But if someone DVRs an episode of Lost and puts that
shit on his comp and then it's in his shared folder for a P2P I can't see how that's different than hooking someone up with a tape of the show that he
did on his VCR. He's not making a buck off it.
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Six66Mike
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
isn't copyright violation more like a dude trying to make a buck off another person's product? |
Exactly! Piracy is burning DVD's and selling them to chumps for a profit, downloading for your personal use doesn't equate to the current definitions
of piracy.
I know people don't like the excuse when people say "if I like it then I buy it" but it's the truth. I expose myself to a ton of music and have
stacks of CD's to go with it. Without hitting up shit like #hardcoremp3 back on DAL.net like 10+ years ago, I wouldn't have grabbed stuff like
Strife, Snapcase, Integrity & other Victory bands that got me started, or paid attention to Snapcase at Warped Tour.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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xoversux
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As someone who has put out several records and at one time depended on music as my sole income, I can say that I would rather give people music for
free and let them come to shows and buy merch, that's where bands make any money. I'm not trying to sound like a money hound, but if money is being
made off a band, the band should be getting most of it.
My band doesn't sell nearly enough records to make a difference and that probably applies to a vast majority of bands out there. We (bands) spend all
the effort writing, recording, designing and then a label presses just enough to make a few bucks for themselves.
I'm not anti-label, but they need to truly serve their function as marketing tools for bands to be successful.
Bands don't sell records, labels do and a good label with keen marketing skills should be able to sell 45 minutes of someone taking a crap.
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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by xoversux
a good label with keen marketing skills should be able to sell 45 minutes of someone taking a crap. |
I think I bought that at Armageddon Shop in Providence last week. 
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Mark Lind
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I don't think downloading is the same as trading tapes. Mainly because people today don't feel the need to have a physical product. Back then if you
had a dubbed tape then people would usually still buy it if they liked it. Today people just upload to their ipod and that's the end of it.
To play devil's advocate to my own argument, I think file sharing mainly takes place today because the quality of modern music is bad. Green Day's
"American Idiot" still sold 5.1 million copies in the US because it was a great record. It probably got downloaded another 5 million times but they
were rewarded for a quality CD. The labels need to upgrade the quality of their bands. And people need to chill the fuck out and stop thinking they
can have whatever they please. They can have it.... if they pay for it.
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random
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Not sure how reliable the info is since I just did a quick Google search, but I was really just looking for how much iTunes pulls down in a year.
This link says it was expected to be $1.2 BILLION in fiscal year '07 (link).
That's not including Amazon downloads. That's not including sales of physical CDs in Walmart and Best Buy. Just iTunes. $1.2 billion in a year.
Somewhat unrelated, but we've discussed this before... I suspect that a lot of these estimates about how much record companies are "losing" are
overblown for two reasons.
(1) Most of these downloads aren't "lost purchases"... people never intended to pay for them if they couldn't download them.
(2) iTunes lets you buy individual songs instead of overpriced full-length albums with a ton of filler. This little innovation alone is probably
responsible for a hell of a lot of the change in album sales, and it's due to record companies overcharging for a bundled product that people didn't
really want to begin with.
And if we ever see the day that you buy cable channels individually instead of being forced into buying huge bundles of 100+ channels when you only
want 5, you'll see revenues shift around a hell of a lot. And besides, why do you have to pay for basic cable if you only want HBO?
Having said all of this... Mark, I hate shitbag kids, too. They're going to feel that sense of entitlement anyway. They did before downloading and
the internet. They will even if it goes away. But all that this heavy-handed legislation does is give the government and RIAA attorneys the chance
to spy on us EVEN EASIER THAN THEY ALREADY CAN (AND DO).
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DaveMoral
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^It's not just spying... it's seizing someone's property. Make the kid delete the shit from his comp, but taking the comp? That's insane!
There's a whole slew of laws that are fucked up because they allow parties to seize property that is unconnected to the debt in the first fucking
place.
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Voodoobillyman
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I do download music, but I try to stick with stuff that you simply can not find on CD anywhere unless it happens to show up on Ebay or Amazon for
waaaaaaaaaaay too much. I'm not much for big label type bands anyway and I don't download movies. i don't play video games so I don't mess with those
either. If I want a new CD, I buy it, I don't download it. Based on what I just said, I don't know where I fit into this argument but I actually agree
to an extent with both sides. The one record that comes to mind right now is the new Motorhead. I refused to download it on soulseek although i could
have just to hear it early, I waited until release day, took off work early and went to buy it. It is about that experience as much as the music for
me, I have always loved the anticipation and the day of glory when I actually lay my hands and ears on the prize. man.....I love music.
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SS76
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
The one record that comes to mind right now is the new Motorhead. I refused to download it although i could have just to hear it early, I waited
until release day, went to buy it. It is about that experience as much as the music for me, I have always loved the anticipation and the day of glory
when I actually lay my hands and ears on the prize. man.....I love music. |
I was the same way with that same cd. But I did download the new metallica because lars is such a prick though.
Silence is golden but violence is platinum. |
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Six66Mike
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The Australian government has just made it known that their "content filtering" is no longer going to be opt in but mandatory for all users. This
will block illegal content which in Australia includes R & XXX rated movies, and I'm sure P2P as well. This is essentially like China's firewall but
in a supposedly democratic Western nation.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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DaveMoral
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I don't even download music, except a couple things posted here sometimes. Hell, I hardly listen to music anymore. I've just been downloading TV
shows.
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