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Rubisco
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![[*]](./images/thorp/default_icon.gif) posted on 9-21-2004 at 02:29 AM |
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Tolerance of Christian Hardcore and the Ignorance of God\'s Contribution to
Recently, I came across a thread on this board advocating for the boycott of Christian Hardcore. The title caught my attention and i decided to find
out what the author was advocating and his reasons for his argument. The author of the original post did a fairly good job; outlining his key points
and having a bit of support for his opinion.
Sadly, though, the rest of the contributions to the original were not of the same caliber. Rather than provide further ideas for discussion, the
thread turned into a pornographic rant against religion. Not one person after the original author had one intelligent thing to add to the argument.
Instead of using reason, they used emotion and crude humor to try to legitimize their hatred.
This is an antithesis to the short essay originally posted by the author. None of the other posts afterward require debate, as there was no idea to
begin with. And yes, I am a Christian, but I will you show that an aggressive stance against Christian Hardcore to be foolish and ignorant without any
biblical references or Christian dogmas. My argument, as you will see, stands just as strong even if there is no God.
One of the author\'s main points of argument is that Christian Hardcore is a new addition to a 20 year old tradition of Hardcore that has its own
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Rubisco
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 02:35 AM |
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anyways, so it cut off the rest of the essay. But my main point was that Christain-based American law is what gives the ability for hardcore to exist.
So dont be so hard on people who love Jesus and remembe that this Hardcore thing is just for fun.
We all have God to thank for Hardcore
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Boycott Christian HC
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 03:01 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Rubisco
We all have God to thank for Hardcore |
Awesome! Thorp's first fake poster?
"It's time for the new school, the Hardline."
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BD
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 03:04 AM |
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Rubisco -
First off, welcome to the Thorp Board. You should try editing you post (click the green edit button), or reposting the whole text again - poeple have
certainly written more than that on these boards, and i dare say your entire argument would get people talking.
You should know that the thread you read about boycotting christian hardcore is actually the second version. The first version, and its six pages of
responses, were lost when the boards crashed a few months ago. And while there was still a fair amount crap posting in that thread, there were some
intelligible debates.
That said, this is the hate forum, and the author of the boycott post is here every day, so... let the drama begin! Enjoy.
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BD
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 03:05 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Boycott Christian HC
| Quote: | Originally posted by Rubisco
We all have God to thank for Hardcore |
Awesome! Thorp's first fake poster? |
look at that, he beat me to it!
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LilOz
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 11:30 AM |
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I never claimed to hate anything, but I thought the picture was hilarious and maybe some other people would too.
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GabeTexasGAMC
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 02:44 PM |
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i hate white people.
i hate black people.
i hate asians.
i hate christians.
i hate everyone.
if they are stupid.
i hate you dude, for having a better vocabulary than me.
i hate you for being able to form complete sentences.
io bet you have a girlfriend too...
oooh fuck i really hate you.
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Big Ugly
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 03:02 PM |
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The biggest complaint with religion in music is the attempt by some to force their beliefs on others. Being a devout atheist I have no desire to hear
religioe vomit (thank you Jello) spewed forth through music. Because of this I usually try to avoid religious bands. I personally don't want any
religion, be it Christian, Jewish, Buddist, Hindu, or whatever in hardcore because I don't think it's what hardcore is about. In the words of Roger
Miret it's "all about one scene, unity!" You can't have unity when people are fighting over who's right or wrong. Fuck that shit. Hardcore is about
brotherhood (I include women in this generalization before anyone gets mad) and fighting together against the outside world. Hardcore united!
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tireironsaint
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 06:30 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Rubisco
anyways, so it cut off the rest of the essay. But my main point was that Christain-based American law is what gives the ability for hardcore to exist.
So dont be so hard on people who love Jesus and remembe that this Hardcore thing is just for fun.
We all have God to thank for Hardcore |
You should also realize that most of the people who signed our Declaration of Independence and created our Constitution were NOT christians, that's a
common misconception, but being common doesn't make it true. Most of those people were Deists, and while the laws may be similar to christian-judeo
"laws", they are based on the common moral code in civilsed societies of the time. Keeping the church from taking control was a HUGE deal to them,
that's why there is SUPPOSED to be a little thing called separation of church and state and thus you have things like ignorant goverment officials
losing their jobs for trying to do something stupid like bringing a monument to the ten commandments into a court house.
As for HC or any underground scene, in my opinion, religion should not have a place. One of the stated goals in christianity and many other religions
is to convert nonbelievers. Most people within the church will tell you that you are not doing all you can as a christian if you don't actively seek
out and attempt to convert others. That's something I have a HUGE problem with and I think it's one of the main roots of Boycott's argument, at least
that's how I see it.
And on the topic of your comment being cut back, I call MAJOR bullshit and being one of the longest winded assholes on this board (at least version
1), I know what i'm talking about. Thanks for the laugh though, it cracked me up to see someone complain about other people not posting real comments
and then try to cover their lack of a real statement by blaming it on the board.
One more little comment, to a LOT of us, HC (and it's forerunner Punk) are much more than "just for fun". I know it saved my life and means at least
as much to me as anything else in my life, fuck, it IS my life, so I take offense at people who claim it's just for fun. Good luck with that whole
Jesus thing though.
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Rubisco
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 06:56 PM |
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Thanks guys, this is great.
Several Things though:
1.) I did have a complete essay that was lost due to my lacking computer skills. I will re-post it in its entirty next week after exams when I have
time.
2.)Separation of Church and State is NOT in the Constitution ANYWHERE.
3.)The author of the last post has lied. 50 out of the 52 men who were responsible for our Constitution were Christains. Thomas Jefferson and Ben
Franklin were Deists, but the colonial form of Deism was not much different from Christianity. Deism is essentially Christianity except that they
don't believe in miracles. It is a historical fact that 50 of the Founding Fathers were Christians. Look it up, go to the library, try and outsmart
me. Please. Prove me wrong with textural referances. Read "America's Christain History: The Untold Story" by Gary DeMar, then bring me an agruement
against the Christian Heritage of America. You can't.
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Rubisco
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 07:07 PM |
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Oh yeah, which one of the ten commandments do you guys think are oppresive or unfair?
And atheism is an official religion, Atheist groups get Fedaral Funding under the label as a religious organization.
Also, how does Hardcore tell you have to lead your life? What value for human life does it have and were does that come from? Where does Hardcore say
we go when we die? How does Hardcore explain why we feel? If Hardcore is a worldview, then it must answer these questions. It might, but I don't know
the Hardcore answers. Maybe you all can educate me.
Finally, I read and write things like this for fun, I won't take offense to the opinions of others and I will listen to anyone else's ideas. All I ask
is that you do the same for me. I'm just trying to get people thinking. Remember to read everything I write before you respond, so that you don't miss
anything or misunderstand me.
But I gotta go, I hope you all have a great day!
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tireironsaint
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 07:56 PM |
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Your points of debate are interesting.....
I don't have much time right now, but let me answer a couple of things off the top of my head.
1. Deism - The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no
influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
2. No one here is debating christianity in and of itself, just it's relation to HC, so for you to ask which one of the commandments is "oppressive or
unfair" is ridiculous, it has nothing to do with the topic.
3. Telling us to read a book that supports your theory and then expecting us to provide counter argument BASED ON THAT, is beyond laughable.
4. Hardcore in and of itself does not address those points because it is not a religion. Do I need to expand on this? No, I don't think so.
5. I never said I was an Atheist. I can appreciate their arguments better than those of christians because they are based on logic and fact as opposed
to "faith" and sleight of hand tactics like you are using here, but I am not an Atheist.
Oh, by the way, if you want to call me a liar, I'd appreciate it if you can show a reliable unbiased source for your statement.
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moron
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| posted on 9-21-2004 at 07:59 PM |
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the bible is a really nice story.
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SAAAAARS
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| posted on 9-22-2004 at 01:16 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Big Ugly
The biggest complaint with religion in music is the attempt by some to force their beliefs on others. Being a devout atheist I have no desire to hear
religioe vomit (thank you Jello) spewed forth through music. Because of this I usually try to avoid religious bands. I personally don't want any
religion, be it Christian, Jewish, Buddist, Hindu, or whatever in hardcore because I don't think it's what hardcore is about. In the words of Roger
Miret it's "all about one scene, unity!" You can't have unity when people are fighting over who's right or wrong. Fuck that shit. Hardcore is about
brotherhood (I include women in this generalization before anyone gets mad) and fighting together against the outside world. Hardcore united!
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i didn't read the rest of the thread yet, i don't think anyone else will have said this but.. with or without religion, hardcore isn't really united.
straight edge causes a huge barrier here, as does many other things. religion isn't the only thing keeping things from being united...
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SAAAAARS
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| posted on 9-22-2004 at 01:25 AM |
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i'm christian. i listen to a few christian bands. i go to their shows. and i go to other shows. kids stay respectful of me and i do the same by not
throwing my god-loving shit in their faces. from what i can see, things go along pretty smoothly whether or not christianity is involved.
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DAN SMASH
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| posted on 9-22-2004 at 08:21 AM |
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To me, one of the main things about hardcore is it's advocacy to stand up for yourself and fight against what you believe, or know to be, wrong.
It is not all "fun", i agree with tireiron's comment that hardcore saved his life, it pretty much stopped me from falling down the slippery slope of
self destruction, i have got to thank hardcore for that, not christianity.
Hardcore generally, tells one to seek out and smash their enemies down.
Christianity, on the other hand, tells one to embrace and forgive their enemies.
I choose hardcore.
Boycott's original post is valid and acceptable to me.
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Boycott Christian HC
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| posted on 9-22-2004 at 09:02 AM |
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Who's behind this onslaught of fake posting? Is "Rubisco" really The Saint talking to himself? Could it even be the man with 9 stars, Big D? Or maybe
the Thorp Whore, suspiciously absent in the last few days? (Nah, it couldn't be her, this type of intelligent humour is too complicated for the female
mind.) The shit is hillarious though.
"It's time for the new school, the Hardline."
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GabeTexasGAMC
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| posted on 9-22-2004 at 10:56 AM |
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I nominate this for most ANOYING post of the year.
Who the fuck cares. Floorpunch and fuck shit up at home or at shows. Fucking assholes!
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RomanticViolence
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| posted on 9-23-2004 at 08:17 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by GabeTexasGAMC
I nominate this for most ANOYING post of the year.
Who the fuck cares. Floorpunch and fuck shit up at home or at shows. Fucking assholes! |
Ill vote on that!
"I love to singa about the moona and the juna and the springa I love to singa"
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Big Ugly
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| posted on 9-23-2004 at 02:55 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Rubisco
Oh yeah, which one of the ten commandments do you guys think are oppresive or unfair?
And atheism is an official religion, Atheist groups get Fedaral Funding under the label as a religious organization.
Also, how does Hardcore tell you have to lead your life? What value for human life does it have and were does that come from? Where does Hardcore say
we go when we die? How does Hardcore explain why we feel? If Hardcore is a worldview, then it must answer these questions. It might, but I don't know
the Hardcore answers. Maybe you all can educate me.
Finally, I read and write things like this for fun, I won't take offense to the opinions of others and I will listen to anyone else's ideas. All I ask
is that you do the same for me. I'm just trying to get people thinking. Remember to read everything I write before you respond, so that you don't miss
anything or misunderstand me.
But I gotta go, I hope you all have a great day! |
I am an atheist but I don't collect money from the government for it nor do I sit around in a place of worship discussing it with others. Nor do I go
around asking for donations. How is the Catholic church takes in tens of millions of dollars tax free every year yet the people they say they are
going to help with that money never see any of it? There are thousands of poor and homeless and starving Christians in North America as we speak yet
the church chooses to spend their money on tv ads and supporting politicians that see their way. Is this a good example they set foe the faithful?
The Varican has more money then anyone yet their followers are still begging on the streets trying to feed their kids. Until the hypocrisy and
corruption in the church ends, keep it away from the hardcore scene that means everything to me.
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tireironsaint
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| posted on 9-28-2004 at 12:15 PM |
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What happened to our little jesusboy? I guess he got discouraged after realizing nobody bought his bullshit.
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xcut throatx
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| posted on 9-30-2004 at 09:49 PM |
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I'm new here...sort of..I lurked here and had a username a long time ago, which I assume must have been deleted, I only had like 20 posts.. uh anyway
I'm paul and i'm in Richmond, VA....anyways..now that I'm done introducing myself.
I don't neccesarily think that christians IN hardcore is bad but I don't think that adding yet another stupid clique to the hardcore scene is a good
thing.
And as far as christian hardcore bands...its just not for me...I don't want to hear lyrics about jesus...it seems super-preachy in normal christian
rock. keep it there.
--paul
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defstarsteve
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| posted on 10-2-2004 at 03:11 PM |
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the roots of hardcore are punk...
punk is not only music but a lifestyle against the mainstream lifestyle
force fed to you by this society
Christianity = the mainstream lifestyle in America
so as punks and hardcore kids it is our doctrine to be opposed to your beliefs
if you're proud of your religion rad
thanks I'm not buying
one of the good things I find about being an atheist is
I don't waste my time on your silly fiction, except for this post
I don't sit around and go man that non existent god thing, yeah that's lame
my time is devoted to the tangibles, that I have nothing but faith in
my children, my business, and my friends....
this is the basis of hardcore... that I still believe in
finding support and supporting those you can believe in
that you know you can rely on
you may say that's the basis for religion, as well
but I don't believe in miracles, just those things I can trust in, that I can touch and feel and know will be there when I need them...
not a fable....
my strength is from within...
yours is from a story, written by man, to control man....
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tireironsaint
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| posted on 10-4-2004 at 02:40 AM |
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Damn, Steve, that's gotta be the most I've ever seen you post at once and you didn't even mention Star Wars!!
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Big Ugly
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| posted on 10-4-2004 at 05:00 PM |
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I guess we can assume that the pederast who started this thread isn't coming back. We might as well let it go.
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