BDx13
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More than $1.2 trillion spent on health care each year is a waste of money.
Interesting article, regardless of where you are on the current healthcare debate:
http://finance.yahoo.com/insurance/article/107498/health-car...
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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I don't envy anybody trying to implement health care changes in the U.S. So much red tape to get through, fighting the very rich and powerful
insurance companies, sorting out all the issues involved, etc. It's a shitty job I would want no part of.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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barc0debaby
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The health insurance industry lobbying groups have average people duped big time on this one.
Take the automotive industry for instance. American auto companies have to pay large sums of money towards current and retired employees. This
hinders their ability to be economically competitive with say for example a Japanese auto company where there is a national health care system.
If the majority of the economically developed world has removed the cost of health care from their private industries it only makes sense for us to do
the same to stay relevant in the marketplace.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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The other problem the U.S. has is the sheer number of citizens. Canada's population is about 1/10th of the U.S. Then you also face the issue of
dealing with illegal aliens, because I would guess that a high percentage of Americans wouldn't want their tax dollars spent to treat people who have
no legal right to be their in the first place. This is something the U.S. should have done long before this.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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barc0debaby
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The illegal debate is driven more by racism then rationality. A high percentage of American tax payers can suck farts, because whether they like to
admit or not they utilize and to an large extent rely on the work of illegal immigrants. The American meat processing industry is completely
dependent on undocumented workers to man their slaughterhouses. If the American people weren't paying illegals, not nearly as many would be here.
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newbreedbrian
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You're right Mike, it's an uphill battle for sure. Population numbers are an issue but the tax base is that much larger as well. The fact is the ratio
of the amount of tax taken in annually compared to what is actually spent for the benefit of its own citizens is pretty disgusting. Don't forget it
wasn't that long ago Canada faced our own battle against opposition to universal healthcare. Tommy Douglas fought a bitter fight to make it happen for
us. It's shameful that the average person doesn't even know his name or his contribution. And it's also a shame the direction we're heading in as
well. A two tier system is definitely in our future.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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FNSRecords
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| Quote: | Originally posted by barc0debaby
The illegal debate is driven more by racism then rationality. A high percentage of American tax payers can suck farts, because whether they like to
admit or not they utilize and to an large extent rely on the work of illegal immigrants. The American meat processing industry is completely
dependent on undocumented workers to man their slaughterhouses. If the American people weren't paying illegals, not nearly as many would be here.
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True...also, we pay alot more money when ANYONE legal or illegal is rushed to the emergency room for something that could have been taken care of long
before it got worse.
Alot of the expenses to the heath care industry, hospitals ect...are neglected injuries and simple illness that has gone untreated...typically because
of lack of affordable heath care.
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Discipline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by barc0debaby
The illegal debate is driven more by racism then rationality. A high percentage of American tax payers can suck farts, because whether they like to
admit or not they utilize and to an large extent rely on the work of illegal immigrants. The American meat processing industry is completely
dependent on undocumented workers to man their slaughterhouses. If the American people weren't paying illegals, not nearly as many would be here.
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I would have to disagree with it being a racist issue. I personally wouldn't want my tax dollars to pay for illegal immigrants. They've broken the
law to be there in the first place, as well as working illegally and not paying taxrs on their earnings. They also send a great deal of their
earnings home to their familes in their home countries instead of adding it to the U.S. economy through consumerism. Looking at it that way, I can't
think of a single reason that would make me think they deserve free healthcare.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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random
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
I would have to disagree with it being a racist issue. I personally wouldn't want my tax dollars to pay for illegal immigrants. They've broken the
law to be there in the first place, as well as working illegally and not paying taxrs on their earnings. They also send a great deal of their
earnings home to their familes in their home countries instead of adding it to the U.S. economy through consumerism. Looking at it that way, I can't
think of a single reason that would make me think they deserve free healthcare. |
Mike gives me the chance to finally break this out... the idea that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes is largely a myth. Illegal immigrants often
need to provide a social security number to an employer, and there's not really any safeguards in place to require employers to verify the SSN (so,
for example, they can hire ten guys in a row with the same SSN and not deal with any legal repercussions, since they did all they have to... which is
request a SSN, etc).
Believe it or not, illegal immigrants are a major reason the social security system hasn't collapsed yet... Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
If you're serious about fixing several of these messes at once...
1) Provide some sort of universal health care system.
I'm largely in favor of a government-provided system for a few reasons.
First, it means we can seriously limit malpractice suits in a way I would find fair. By this, I mean we don't just shield doctors from paying for
their mistakes that seriously fuck people up and could have easily been prevented. In doing so, we can also eliminate a hell of a lot of the
unnecessary tests that are performed just in case a malpractice suit comes up.
Second, the overwhelming majority of paperwork and administrative costs disappear overnight. No more back-and-forth between the doctor and the
insurance company; no more pre-approvals; no more reimbursement forms.
This immediately knocks out a big chunk of the $420 billion of waste these two areas cause (mentioned in BD's article).
2) Crack down on employers hiring illegal immigrants.
Illegal immigration is all about incentives. Illegal immigrants are currently already literally risking their lives to come work in the US, and there
doesn't seem to be much that will eliminate the incentives they face.
Employers have obvious incentives to hire illegal immigrants but do not face any negative incentives for being caught. Hardcore crackdown - fines,
prison sentences, confiscation of property involved in the illegal enterprise (business, property purchased with proceeds, etc). We already use these
tactics with drugs, so there is precedent for it. But if we are serious about it, it shifts the incentives that employers face and likely causes a
serious reduction in employment opportunities for illegal immigrants. And this is how you affect potential immigrants' incentives... NO JOBS = NO
INCENTIVE TO COME.
3) Take your pick - provide legal status for existing illegals or find a way to round them up and deport them.
I don't really think mass deportation is possible. Make a fresh start.
Legal status for those now here.
Eliminate incentives for people to come illegally.
Seriously enforce existing laws to crack down on future immigration, which should be a much smaller group of people now.
4) Just throwing this in to point out that we largely get around Mike's issue of paying for illegal immigrants' health care... if the government
would just listen to me. 
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Discipline
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That was a very interesting article.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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FNSRecords
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Also...common sense dictates that if the process for hardworking, honest and entrepreneurial immigrants was improved and better funded, more would opt
for the legal option.
I never understood how the previous administration cut the funding for the INS and put an idiot in charge of it....then sided with proponents of "the
big wall".....
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barc0debaby
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"The legalization provisions in this act will go far to improve the lives of a class of individuals who now must hide in the shadows, without access
to many of the benefits of a free and open society. Very soon many of these men and women will be able to step into the sunlight and, ultimately, if
they choose, they may become Americans."
Ronald Reagan after he granted amnesty to 3 million illegal immigrants.
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