BDx13
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Should gov't union employees be allowed to strike?
In New York, it's illegal for union members that work for the government to strike. This includes sanitation, police, fire, transit, etc. If
contract talks end, they can go into binding arbitration, but have to keep working.
The NYC TWU voted to break the law and go on strike early this morning. After weeks of negotiations and concessions by the Metropolitan Transit
Authority, the sticking point had to do with pension contributions by future hires. The main things the MTA gave in on were going from no pay raise
to 3%, 4%, 3.5% over three years and not increasing retirement from 55 to 62.
Of course, the MTA had a billion dollar surplus this year and they spent a huge chunk of it offering discounted fares to passengers during November
and December. New Yorkers didn't even want this to happen - we'd rather have had them put it towards making sure there isn't a fare increase next
year (it went up to $2 a trip this year).
Anyway, now that the strike is on, 7 million commuters have to find another way into the city. The stirke will cost the city $22million/day outright,
plus another $400 a day in lost revenue.
Is any of this this fair?
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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CR83
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No
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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I'm a go with NO. They already have nice jobs that are protected from many factors that other jobs are not. I want a government job.
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moron
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They make more than me and theyre bitching about wanting 6% increases every year for three years? The city hadnt given extra funds for a salary
increase to the social workers working under city contracts for 7 years. So, fuck the TWU. This entire situation is just pissing me off.
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DeathByForce
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Yeah,
you're lucky.. when Toronto's transit was on the brink of strike the GOVERNMENT actually stepped in and forced the company to accept the Unions
demand. Because when the province and CN Rail operators went on strike.. it was absolute CHAOS.
Transit is a must, especially in a huge city. I don't think things like that should have a choice to strike. It disrupts more lives than just their
own.
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BDx13
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Court Fines NYC Transit Strikers $1M a Day
By LARRY McSHANE, Associated Press Writer 42 minutes ago
The city's subway and bus workers went on strike Tuesday for the first time in more than 25 years, stranding millions of commuters, holiday shoppers
and tourists at the height of the Christmas rush. A judge promptly slapped the union with a $1 million-a-day fine.
State Justice Theodore Jones leveled the sanction against the Transport Workers Union for violating a state law that bars public employees from going
on strike.
Attorneys for the city and state had asked Jones to hit the union with a "very potent fine" for defying the law.
"This is a very, very sad day in the history of labor relations for New York City," the judge said in imposing the fine.
The union vowed to immediately appeal, calling it an excessive fine.
The heavy penalty could force the union off the picket lines and back on the job. Its 33,000 members are already facing individual fines of two days'
pay for every day they are on strike.
The courtroom drama came midway through a day in which the strike fell far short of the all-out chaos that many had feared.
The nation's largest transit system ground to a halt after 3 a.m. when the 33,000-member Transport Workers Union called the strike after a late round
of negotiations with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority broke down Monday night. The subways and buses provide more than 7 million rides per
day.
New Yorkers car-pooled, shared taxis, rode bicycles, roller-skated or walked in the freezing cold. Early morning temperatures were in the 20s.
Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who had said the strike would cost the city as much as $400 million a day, joined the throngs of people crossing the Brooklyn
Bridge by foot.
"It's a form of terrorism, if you ask me," said Maria Negron, who walked across the bridge. "I hope they go back to work."
With special traffic rules in place, the city survived the morning rush without the monumental gridlock some had feared. Manhattan streets were
unusually quiet; some commuters just stayed home.
Public officials carried out their threat of quick legal action, heading into a courtroom in Brooklyn to obtain sanctions against the union for
violating state law. The transit employees could face fines of two days' pay for each day off the job.
The striking workers deserve a "very potent fine" for the walkout because of its economic and social cost, James Henly of the state attorney general's
office said in court. But union attorney Arthur Schwartz accused the MTA of provoking the strike.
Gov. George Pataki said the union acted illegally and "will suffer the consequences."
No talks between the two sides were scheduled by Tuesday afternoon, though a union lawyer told a court hearing that his side was willing to sit down
with a mediator.
It was New York's first citywide transit walkout since an 11-day strike in 1980. The main sticking points were pay raises and pension and health
benefits.
"I'm not happy about this," said Yvette Vigo, whose teeth were chattering after she walked a couple of miles to pick up a company-run shuttle bus at
Wall Street. "It's too cold to walk this far."
At one subway booth, a handwritten sign read: "Strike in Effect. Station Closed. Happy Holidays!!!!"
Huge lines formed at ticket booths for the commuter railroads that stayed in operation, and Manhattan-bound traffic backed up at many bridges and
tunnels as police turned away cars with fewer than four people.
Transit workers took to the picket lines with signs that read: "We Move NY. Respect Us!"
"I think they all should get fired," said Eddie Goncalves, a doorman trying to get home after his overnight shift. He said he expected to spend an
extra $30 per day in cab and train fares.
"It doesn't seem right to tie up the cultural and investment center of the world," said Larry Scarinzi, 72, a retired engineer from Whippany, N.J.,
waiting for a cab outside Penn Station. "They're breaking the law. They're tearing the heart out of the nation's economy."
The mayor put into effect a sweeping emergency plan, including the requirement that cars entering Manhattan below 96th Street have at least four
occupants.
The union said the latest MTA offer included annual raises of 3 percent, 4 percent and 3.5 percent. MTA workers typically earn from $35,000 as a
starting salary to about $55,000 annually. The union said it wanted a better offer, especially since the MTA has a $1 billion surplus this year.
The contract expired Friday at midnight, but the two sides had continued talking through the weekend.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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BDx13
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and the "brown outs" we've been experiencing over the past two weeks haven't helped. if you want me to support your union, don't leave me sitting in
a tunnel for 30 minutes at a time because of 'congestion up ahead'!
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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moforn
Senior Member
Posts: 525
Registered: 7-13-2004
Location: Toronto
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My sympathies tend to fall with the unions in labour disputes, but unless I'm missing something this is a pretty obvious case of an abuse of power on
the part of the transit workers. Has the union said why they didn't wait for the arbitration to run it's course?
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BDx13
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as i understand it, their argument was more or less that they didn't believe the MTA wasn't making their best offer, and that more should be conceded
before arbitraion began.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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BDx13
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Good article about economic impact from NYT...
Strike Inflicts Broad Economic Pain
December 21, 2005
By RICHARD P?REZ-PE?A
At Century 21, the discount department store near Wall Street where shopping is usually a contact sport, a smattering of customers yesterday found the
retail version of a Christmas miracle: entire aisles to themselves and no lines at the registers.
At F. illi Ponte, a venerable TriBeCa restaurant that gave its employees cab fare on Monday to make sure they would show up to work yesterday, half
the day's reservations were canceled.
And at a Midtown spot near Bryant Park where a 52-story office tower is being built, barely half the construction workers made it to the job, and
those who did were slowed by delays in getting building materials delivered.
The strike called early yesterday by subway and bus workers had a "severe to devastating" effect on businesses, Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg said,
denouncing the Transport Workers Union and demanding an end to the walkout. City Comptroller William C. Thompson Jr. estimated the cost to the city's
economy at $400 million the first day, and $300 million for each subsequent weekday this week.
Whether or not such assessments are accurate, a drive past storefronts with their security gates locked at midday or a stroll through eerily quiet
shops the week before Christmas left no doubt that the strike was inflicting widespread economic pain.
Kathryn Wylde, president of the Partnership for New York City, an alliance of hundreds of businesses, said that about 20 percent of those companies'
employees were absent. Most affected, she said, were the lower-level employees who are more likely to live in the city and are most reliant on public
transportation.
But many city office workers who live in the suburbs also stayed away, dissuaded by the prospect of a city paralyzed. The region's commuter railroads
and bus lines had fewer riders than usual from the suburbs.
The stores and restaurants so reliant on the surge of commuters into the city and the holiday boom in sales were especially injured.
At Lord & Taylor's flagship store in Midtown, so many sales clerks were absent that managers were pressed into service helping the small number of
customers. At a Brooks Brothers store in the Financial District, salespeople with little to do but straighten and re-straighten the displays
outnumbered customers yesterday morning.
Ordinarily, commuters stream through Flushing News Island, a shop next to a No. 7 subway entrance in Flushing, Queens, but not yesterday. "I'm just
sitting here," said Qamar Ali, the owner. "It's totally dead. I hope this strike ends soon, or otherwise we can't pay next month's rent."
Mitchell Modell, chief executive of Modell's Sporting Goods, said sales at his stores in the city fell by at least half. "If it goes on much longer,
I'll be on suicide watch," he said.
Burt P. Flickinger III, a retail industry consultant, said that if the strike lasts only a day or two shoppers will mostly make up for it by buying
more later in the week. But if the walkout continues, stores will lose their most important week of the year, he said, and "the economic impact could
be pretty egregious."
"If it goes a full week, sales could be off 50 percent or more for the week," he said. "In terms of lost operating income, it could be a quarter to
half a billion dollars."
The drop in retail and restaurant sales also cut into the city's and the state's sales tax revenues. But the city's loss could be a gain for the
suburbs and businesses with Internet sites, if shoppers who do not want to come into Manhattan decide to shop near home or online instead.
There was some dispute among experts over the city's estimate of economic losses. Rosemary Scanlon, a former chief economist for the Port Authority of
New York and New Jersey, said that much of the hardship is tough to gauge, occurring person by person and small business by small business, but that
she thought the city's figures were about right.
"The nursing aides, the nannies, the store clerks, the people with back-room jobs at restaurants - these are the hardest hit, but we can't see it as
readily as the big businesses," said Ms. Scanlon, who teaches at New York University. "There's a real income class difference in who can work at home
on the computer and who can't, and that's one of the biggest changes from previous strikes."
Rae Rosen, a senior economist for the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, said that official estimates might be exaggerated, noting that much of the
financial services industry was operating almost normally. The effects will decline over time, she said, "as people figure out how to do business, how
to get to work."
Some businesses said the strike had little effect on them. Several Manhattan hotels, nearly full with holiday travelers, said occupancy rose, as local
business executives sought to wait out the strike in hotel rooms, rather than brave the trip home.
Tourists staying in Midtown continued to seek out nearby attractions like Radio City Music Hall. Several members of the concert hall's orchestra slept
in a lounge on Monday night, and other players rode bicycles or walked yesterday.
Cristyne L. Nicholas, president of NYC & Company, which promotes tourism in the city, said, "What we think is really going to hurt is the tourism
industry in the outlying areas - Harlem, Lower Manhattan, the outer boroughs."
Work on Wall Street continued unabated. Most of the 3,000 traders and others who work on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange made it to work - in
fact, many arrived early. Trading was slightly heavier yesterday than it was the same day last year, 1.47 billion shares.
Reporting for this article was contributed by Charles V. Bagli, Corey Kilgannon, Colin Moynihan, Robin Pogrebin and Daniel J. Wakin.
Copyright 2005The New York Times Company
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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BDx13
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If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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Voodoobillyman
The Artist Formerly Known As...
Posts: 4247
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I believe if certain types of government employees are being neglected or treated unfairly then they should have the right to strike yes, but I am
speaking mainly of Police, EMT, Fire, things like that. Transit people do not risk their lives on a daily basis and don't have to worry about things
like funding for bulletproof vests to save their lives being cut. They need to quit the fuckin whining and get back to work, there are better ways to
handle this. On a side note though, I do find it slighlty amusing to see a bunch of pompous asses in that city having to work around this
inconvenience. No offense to the cool people in New York City, coming from New England I can't stand most from the city and almost all from jeresy.
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BDx13
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that's the thing... the richies may have to work around it like everyone else, but their financial status alone will help provide them with more
options. this strike is killing the already beaten down working class new yorker.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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Voodoobillyman
The Artist Formerly Known As...
Posts: 4247
Registered: 8-12-2005
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I hear ya, and I think it's ridiculous that they are doing it. They got you guys by the balls and are acting like it.
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Voodoobillyman
The Artist Formerly Known As...
Posts: 4247
Registered: 8-12-2005
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it may come down to intervention by the Federal Government if the City can't find a solution, then everyone loses.
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moforn
Senior Member
Posts: 525
Registered: 7-13-2004
Location: Toronto
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After looking into the issue a bit more, it seems the mta should be called to task as well. The current negotiations should be viewed in the light of
the union agreeing to wage cut-backs around 2000 based on the mta claiming they were running a deficit- something that turned out to be false - the
MTA was keeping two sets of books, one real one and one that could be used to justify telling employees they had to take a pay cut, in other words-
the union agreed to a paycut on the basis of the MTA claiming they were losing money when in fact they were doing anything but. As well, since the
illegality of the strike has been put in the forefront of media coverage it should be noted that the MTA was the first to stray into illegal
territory. The same law that outlaws strikes by public employees also stipulates that pension issues are to be decided at a state level rather than
in the collective bargaining process- a point that the MTA ignored when it tried to push through revisions to the pension plan at the last minute in
the bargaining, thereby establishing that the rule of law was out the window with respect to this dispute. It has been note that the concessions
management sought with respect to the pension issue would have amounted to a savings on the part of the city of less over the next six years of less
than the city will pay in police overtime for the first two days of the strike.
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Killthehumans
Senior Member
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
I believe if certain types of government employees are being neglected or treated unfairly then they should have the right to strike yes, but I am
speaking mainly of Police, EMT, Fire, things like that. Transit people do not risk their lives on a daily basis and don't have to worry about things
like funding for bulletproof vests to save their lives being cut. They need to quit the fuckin whining and get back to work, there are better ways to
handle this. On a side note though, I do find it slighlty amusing to see a bunch of pompous asses in that city having to work around this
inconvenience. No offense to the cool people in New York City, coming from New England I can't stand most from the city and almost all from jeresy.
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i hear that man, i saw some business man complianing on the news "today i have to walk a mile to work"...i used to have to walk 2 miles to my work
befoe i had a license.
just take a look at the papers
your leaders
they\'re killers
they\'re liars
what they do in your
name to make the bodies pile higher
the murders, the terror
they\'ve done it forever
as we sit band and smile
at the script they sell us
but now the victims, they\'re rising
their numbers\'s multiplying
they want their revenge for the years
that they\'ve been dying
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Killthehumans
Senior Member
Posts: 597
Registered: 12-1-2004
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Mood: simon and garfunkal
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to answer the question though i think they should be allowed to strike. Goverment like private business can still have injustices, however it would
have been prudent in this case to wait till after the holidays.
just take a look at the papers
your leaders
they\'re killers
they\'re liars
what they do in your
name to make the bodies pile higher
the murders, the terror
they\'ve done it forever
as we sit band and smile
at the script they sell us
but now the victims, they\'re rising
their numbers\'s multiplying
they want their revenge for the years
that they\'ve been dying
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