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DaveMoral
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The connection between hip hop and hardcore
Alright, here's the way I see it.
Hip hop is the natural result of urban kids raised on R&B and Soul and street corner poetry ala The Last Poets.
Hardcore punk and Oi is the natural result of urban youth raised on rock n roll.
It all emerged at about the same time, and particularly in the case of the US, there was bound to be some cross pollunation because of the proximity
of urban black kids to the same urban kids who started and got into hardcore punk.
I think the differences are glaring, but the main point is that there's an underlying similarity.
If there's any one reason why hardcore punk didn't take off like hip hop and rap it's because the market was already flooded with white music... and
no one gives a damn about poor mostly white kids making some noise, while rap was pretty much the only major noise being made by black youth in it's
time. Shit the Beastie Boys are an example of hardcore punk turned hip hop.
Aside from all of that, it all goes back to rock n roll having originated with black youth in the first place.
This is mostly rambling, but see what you can figure out from it.
One last thing, the various methods of mosh/slam dance are basically the hardcore punk equivalent to break dancing.
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XHonusWagnerX
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The reason I dont like that the combo of Hardcore mixed with Rap is pretty widley accepted is because the mixture of metal with rap is completly
shunned and looked down on.
That being said, when its done well (just a matter of opinion) I like both metal/rap and hardcore/rap combos.
I can also appreciate and enjoy some straight ahead rap music and I can enjoy the comedic value of a song like 'rap sucks' by Slapshot.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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DaveMoral
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No doubt.
I love Downset, I think they did the combo well. But I think the entire subculture of hardcore punk runs parallel to the hip hop subculture... not
that it needs to be crossed over at all... I just think that you're going to get that hip hop flavor in hardcore punk... and on occasion you're going
to get hardcore flavor in hip hop.
My friend Foekus did vegan straight edge raps talking about gripping microphones with Xs on his fists and rapping stuff like "I mix Chuck D with Bad
Religion." And he's a good rapper.
To me, hardcore is my hip hop. I like hip hop, but I'm no hip hop head. I'm a hardcore kid through and through, but I still see how it's all related.
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Kid Ugly
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http://www.skinheadnation.co.uk/oi!.htm
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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I think the issue is PUNK was rejecting this very issue of being popular. even though it was comforming a look or style or sound it was still
rejecting. HARDCORE was a blend of punk but and metal that too style and attitude to a new level. Suburban??? maybe but I think the hiphop flavor in
hardcore is street cred if you ask me. I aint tryin to analize but it legit is you ask me. the fake hardcore bands and kids showed true colors and are
gone. Some new ones will always be but they will leave as well.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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I only liked DO WE SPEAK A DEAD LANGUAGE? The 7th track is one of the radest songs ever.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Discipline
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Don't like the rapcore.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore. |
What constitutes "rapcore" to you? Im curious.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore. |
Seconded. For me that means anything which sounds remotely HC-ish and then they
throw in some hip hop beats, some rapping, or anything else swiped from that genre. It sounds ridiculous as well as being a pose. Fortunately for me,
there is pretty much NO band I like who would seriously do something like this in a song. Oh, and don't get me wrong, from time to time, I can enjoy a
little Rap, although almost always Old School stuff and even then I'm very picky.
Veritas odium parit
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Voodoobillyman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
Don't like the rapcore. |
Seconded. For me that means anything which sounds remotely HC-ish and then they
throw in some hip hop beats, some rapping, or anything else swiped from that genre. It sounds ridiculous as well as being a pose. Fortunately for me,
there is pretty much NO band I like who would seriously do something like this in a song. Oh, and don't get me wrong, from time to time, I can enjoy a
little Rap, although almost always Old School stuff and even then I'm very picky. |
I am of the same opinion on this one..........rap mixed with anything has the GAY.
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DaveMoral
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Thanks for that, that says what I was trying to better than I ever could.
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Mute98
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Son of Skam=one hell of a band
Downset is ok.. i always thought madball had a touch of hip-hop here and there
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms,
and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.
SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms,
and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.
SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.
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Please tell me you're kidding.....
Veritas odium parit
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XHonusWagnerX
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What about BIOHAZARD, MUCKY PUP, E TOWN CONCRETE, EASTCIDE, 7TH RAIL CREW, 7 HILL PSYCHOS? I think SKARHEAD has some rap influence to it. I think most
of the NY bands that came out from Madball on have a rap influence to them, even if its just in the way they act and carry themselves.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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Kid Ugly
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Thanks for that, that says what I was trying to better than I ever could. |
Not a problem. I saw the article a while back and it was the first thng that came to mind when I read this thread.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
Please tell me that you at least like Orange 9mm right???? I mean at least the first 2 records right???? Those records had the best beats, rhythms,
and lyrics. I wouldn't say that Chaka raps but dude but that music had some funk and hiphop rythm in it.
SONS OF SKAM were great. BOXCUTTER is great. ONE LIFE CREW was great. shit even Hazen St was ok. Come on man get son funk it in this joint.
|
Please tell me you're kidding..... |
Not in the very least sucka fool. WORD UP!
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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DaveMoral
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Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands
have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?
Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel.
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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands
have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?
Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel. |
Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.
The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed
at.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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JUICE MAYNE MSHC
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dudes...DOG EAT DOG "All Boro Kings"!!
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thedog
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JUICE MAYNE MSHC
dudes...DOG EAT DOG "All Boro Kings"!! |
great call on that one, great album.
i like a lot of the rap influenced stuff.
downset
e-town
boxcutter
full court press
dog eat dog
candiria
madball
skarhead
donnybrook
fahrenheit 451
d9
\"thank you very little\"
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tireironsaint
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| Quote: | Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands
have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?
Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel. |
Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.
The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed
at. |
Nah, don't worry Honus, I laugh at all of it. I mean fuck, combining Rap and Metal is like combining
cat shit with dog shit and thinking you've got something good. HC and Rap is possibly even worse as far as I'm concerned.
Veritas odium parit
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Voodoobillyman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
| Quote: | Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Hell yeah Orange 9mm, Biohazard(I still rock Urban Discipline a couple times a month, got the cassette in my van)... without a doubt all NYC bands
have a touch of hip hop flavor to them from Madball on. I think that was inevitable. It's the proximity of the two cultures you know?
Like currently LA bands are getting that vibe going too. Donnybrook and Terror without a doubt have a certain hip hop feel. |
Definitly true about Donnybrook & Terror, I forgot about them.
The only problem I have with this is the fact that for the most part it seems like HARDCORE+HIP HOP is ok, but METAL+ HIP HOP is immediatly laughed
at. |
Nah, don't worry Honus, I laugh at all of it. I mean fuck, combining Rap and Metal is like combining
cat shit with dog shit and thinking you've got something good. HC and Rap is possibly even worse as far as I'm concerned. |
Fuckin horrible fer sure
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DaveMoral
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I think it depends on the combination of rap and metal... I was into Rage Against the Machine... but I think the problem with Korn and Limp Bizkit and
the like is that they're fakin' the funk so to speak. Like that Fred Durst dude fronts like he's all hard and shit, but that guy's a pussy... and his
band dress like a bunch of faggots.
I hate all the costumed up bullshit in metal in general, except GWAR because let's face it GWAR is hilarious, I'm not into the whole look and fake
rebellion those dudes are selling to the kids. Especially when that bullshit cock rock gets associated with the shit I listen to and love.
Madball's got a certain hip hop flavor, but they're not "rapcore" by any stretch of the imagination. I honestly have never been into E-town Concrete
really at all... but that's just me, they're definitely "rapcore." I think it comes down to more of a like... it's alright when dudes are immersed in
both cultures and a real. You know? E-town's not frontin' on either hardcore or hip hop... but Limp Bizkit and the like are without a doubt frontin'
on both scenes. Perpetrators, as they say.
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ENDERA.x
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Alright, here's the way I see it.
Hip hop is the natural result of urban kids raised on R&B and Soul and street corner poetry ala The Last Poets.
Hardcore punk and Oi is the natural result of urban youth raised on rock n roll.
It all emerged at about the same time, and particularly in the case of the US, there was bound to be some cross pollunation because of the proximity
of urban black kids to the same urban kids who started and got into hardcore punk.
I think the differences are glaring, but the main point is that there's an underlying similarity.
If there's any one reason why hardcore punk didn't take off like hip hop and rap it's because the market was already flooded with white music... and
no one gives a damn about poor mostly white kids making some noise, while rap was pretty much the only major noise being made by black youth in it's
time. Shit the Beastie Boys are an example of hardcore punk turned hip hop.
Aside from all of that, it all goes back to rock n roll having originated with black youth in the first place.
This is mostly rambling, but see what you can figure out from it.
One last thing, the various methods of mosh/slam dance are basically the hardcore punk equivalent to break dancing. |
Exactly.
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