| Pages:
1
2 |
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
Religous/Political Nuts
Bug the shit out of me. Seriously. Trying to have an intelligent conversation with some of these people over the validity of the bible as a
historical log and why hamas should keep fighting is seriously impossible.
|
|
|
gavin
Posting Freak
Posts: 3973
Registered: 1-15-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
and why hamas should keep fighting is seriously impossible.
explain please
you come at the king....you best not miss
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
Not hamas or any militant group, just a point that's all. Look, this area has been the center of conflict for thousands of years. In the late 40's
Israel claims well...Israel, little fighting etc. Ok I'm good with this so far, hey that's how nations are built. However, to say that these people
are wrong for fighting for what they believe to be theirs is absurd. If a bunch of Mormons came to whatever state you live in, planted a flag and
said this is now ours, wouldn't you fight? That may seem like a far cry from what's going on over there but it's really not. Lastly, the information
the west recieves about what's really going on over there is shaky at best. All I'm saying is before you get into a huge debate and start calling
people who are only doing what you would monsters, find out a little more and stop taking fox news an msnbc as absolute truth.
|
|
|
gavin
Posting Freak
Posts: 3973
Registered: 1-15-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
didnt the U.S. give israel that land after winning ww2?
you come at the king....you best not miss
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
No.
|
|
|
gavin
Posting Freak
Posts: 3973
Registered: 1-15-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by godabandonedme
No. |
ya sure?
you come at the king....you best not miss
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
If it was a axis province granted to the jewish people post wwII it still wasn't a country/state untill after more fighting (that continues today)
between the people already there.
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take sides here. I'm all for manifest(sp?) destiny etc.
But to question the motives of the conqoured is absurd. Who wouldn't fight when being opressed?
|
|
|
tireironsaint
* BANNED *
Posts: 4299
Registered: 5-14-2003
Location: Colorado
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beltones
|
|
You're all for Manifest Destiny, really? No offense, but I'm kinda doubting you know what you're talking about in this thread.
Veritas odium parit
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
Using it loosely, the basic point that nations concour, war happens, it will always happen. In this particular region it's been going on for
thousands of years. It wouldn't be any different if it were Iran doing the same thing. Who's to say it's right (manifest destiny here) I can't
really say, but it's inevitable I guess. However, I can say that to fight back is not anything but normal.
|
|
|
tireironsaint
* BANNED *
Posts: 4299
Registered: 5-14-2003
Location: Colorado
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beltones
|
|
I'm not arguing that people are going to fight on something like that. Right or wrong, if people believe that they have a right to lands that someone
else is claiming, there's probably gonna be a fight. My only point is that I don't think all of the terms you're using here mean what you seem to
think they do. Manifest Destiny seems to be a prime example of that, which is why I provided that link. As for the point MrBadVibes brought up, Israel
was created as a City State at the end of the war. It has existed historically, but that is when it became the legal homeland of the Jewish people and
what people refer to as Israel in general today. If you are saying something beyond that about Israel, it's not really clear what you're trying to
say.
Veritas odium parit
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
I'm not trying to say anything more. Like I said if it was Iran or any other country doing to same I would still have the same opinon. My point is,
actually more of a question, how can you consider fighting for you country, homes, families etc. terrorism?
|
|
|
upyerbum
Posting Freak
Posts: 3226
Registered: 10-14-2005
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Condemned 84
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Boycott Christian HC
And the mission of both is to blow up as many innocent people as possible.
|
Thats an incredibly ignorant statement. This is all the fault of US and British foreign policy. Sorry guys, but you made your bed. Your government is
responsible for far more deaths internationally on a daily basis than "Al Queda" could ever hope to be. You guys need to seriously wake the fuck up as
a nation.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
|
|
|
barc0debaby
Posting Freak
Posts: 2138
Registered: 3-18-2006
Location: My mom's basement
Member Is Offline
Mood: Punk as Fuck
|
|
The process of Israels creation started long before the war, in the late 1800's zionists and jews escaping persecution purchased from Ottoman and Arab
land owners. Immigration to Israel, called Aliyah, came in five different waves spanning the period from around 1880 to after the second world war.
At the end of this period over 600,000 had immigrated into what was to become Israel. Britain, who was selected as mandate over the region by the
post WW1 Allied powers, passed laws to limit Jewish immigration and restricted how much land they could purchase to try to quell Arab frustrations.
As tensions rose Britain decided to withdrawl its administrative position over Palestine. The United Nations then decided to split the country into
two states, about 55% of the land for Israeli and 45% for the Arabs. A year later the Israeli state was proclaimed.
| Quote: |
But how is sympathising with Palestinians terrorists any different from sympathy for Al Qaeda/Jihadists? The Jihadist movement is basically based on
the Palestinian question, isn't it. And the mission of both is to blow up as many innocent people as possible. So why should the Palestinians be
somehow exempt from the war on terror? |
Not to condone Palestinian action in this conflict, but the acts of the Israeli goverment can also be seen as state terror. In order to stop
terrorists from moving supplies in underground tunnels, Israeli troops will move into a town that is suspected, not
necessarily known to have terrorist activity and bulldoze houses. If the family does not leave the house they will be fired upon and will be torn
down with them still in. You might remember a filmmaker by the name of James Miller who was making a documentary for HBO on the effect that the
violent conflict was having on the regions children. He was shot dead by an Israeli soldier during one of these raids. Mr. Miller had been wearing
specific clothing that identified himself as a correspondent and even had his camera on up to the time of his death.
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
That documentary was really good by the way. Saying that these people are the same as Al Qaeda is ridiculous. These are people who are being
occupied by a foreign nation.
|
|
|
Murk
Posting Freak
Posts: 1243
Registered: 5-15-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | | Palestinian sympathy is very fashionable |
second only to sympathy for Israel.
| Quote: | | But how is sympathising with Palestinians terrorists any different from sympathy for Al Qaeda/Jihadists? |
the people who fought for American independence weren't exactly held in a positive light by the England either. i'm sure George Washington was
painted as a terrorist leader.
James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson were likely viewed in a negative light as well.
remember the Boston Tea Party? a response to the Boston Massacre.
The Battles of Lexington and Concord.
The Minutemen.
action, reaction.
|
|
|
gavin
Posting Freak
Posts: 3973
Registered: 1-15-2005
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Murk
| Quote: | | Palestinian sympathy is very fashionable |
second only to sympathy for Israel.
| Quote: | | But how is sympathising with Palestinians terrorists any different from sympathy for Al Qaeda/Jihadists? |
the people who fought for American independence weren't exactly held in a positive light by the England either. i'm sure George Washington was
painted as a terrorist leader.
James Madison, John Adams, Alexander Hamilton, Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson were likely viewed in a negative light as well.
remember the Boston Tea Party? a response to the Boston Massacre.
The Battles of Lexington and Concord.
The Minutemen.
action, reaction. |
i support israel
i support them because they are an extention of the U.S.
BUT i dont support any country where any sort of religion is its driving force, israel included
FUCK ALL RELIGION AND THE BULLSHIT IT BRINGS
and to compare these things to terrorism is fucked
so ya know
i dont hear all that many supporting israel
i hear more sympathy for palistinians anymore
blah, im bored with all this
i hate all opinions on everything
you come at the king....you best not miss
|
|
|
DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Mawt li Isra'il!
Seriously, Israel was established as a Jewish state with the rights of non-Jews as a secondary consideration and all this notion of that state being
"democratic" are bluntly put..... bullshit. Iran is more democratic.
The Sons of Liberty were considered a street gang by the Brittish in the revolutionary era, and you can bet the founding fathers and the Continental
Army were considered the equivalent of terrorists in those days. John Brown was considered a terrorist for his actions against what abolitionists
called the "Slave Power" in the years leading up to the American Civil War... Lincoln himself said the man deserved to die for his actions at Harper's
Ferry where he and a cadre of men, both black and white, took over an armory to distribute weapons to slaves that they apparently erroneously assumed
would rebel and join them. All of these men in US history made decisions I would like to think I would make, and people overseas are making the same
decisions I would make.
How many Irish Americans condemn Hamas and Hizbullah and yet love the IRA? Same premise with all three groups. Micheal Collins is a hero to me, as is
Hassan Nasrullah, just as are John Brown and Nat Turner.
Really, the Israeli-Palestinian/Arab conflict is not truly about religion. Religion is merely a rallying point used by people outside that specific
area of land(Israel and the Palestinian territories). Ultimately it's about one group of people arbitrarily being given control over the lands and
homes of people who had been present for generation upon generation..... all based upon some weak claim over a promise made in the Bible... a
questionable document to say the least. When your home is seized or bulldozed, the fruits of your labor reaped or destroyed by foreign invaders...
then you will understand how Palestinians feel.
Fuck Israel and Zionazis the world over!
|
|
|
Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
Posts: 11900
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: Over here
Member Is Offline
Mood: The Alley Dukes
|
|
Quite an interesting read so far. I like this thread.
I've always said fuck Israel because of it's national poilicies. It seems to me though that a lot of the anti-Israel statements you hear from people
are thinly-veiled statements of anti-semitism. I used to have more sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians but unfortunately they aren't as
sympathetic as they used to be. Things have really gone downhill since the death of Yassar Arafat. I actually thought his passing was going to
herald a positive change in things, but instead they've gotten worse. There is no way I will support Palestine as long as they have a terrorist group
as their elected ruling party.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
|
|
|
DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
Member Is Offline
|
|
Who knows what will come of it though, the US was basically a government of terrorists by King George's standards.
|
|
|
tireironsaint
* BANNED *
Posts: 4299
Registered: 5-14-2003
Location: Colorado
Member Is Offline
Mood: Beltones
|
|
Honestly, I view the word "terrorist" as a word used by those in power to discredit the actions of those who are fighting against them. The current
administration's definition of the word is so vaguely phrased as to encompass just about any action they disagree with. I see our government as being
happy to keep us in fear of an enemy that is, by it's very nature, impossible to pin down or fight in any real way. That's not to say that I support
any of the actions that were taken against this country and certainly should not be read to imply that I think there was anything heroic or
revolutionary about the cowardly acts of 9/11. I simply mean that the actions taken by people fighting the powers that be can almost always be
classified as some kind of terrorism just because those who are NOT in power have no other means to attack or fight back. By definition those people
cannot declare war even though in all honesty, that is what they are doing.
Veritas odium parit
|
|
|
godabandonedme
Senior Member
Posts: 758
Registered: 2-1-2005
Location: Philadelphia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Darkbuster
|
|
Again, I implore (sp?) someone to tell me with what is wrong for fighting against an occupying nation? Whether your or I want to believe it, that is
what is going on over there.
|
|
|
DaveMoral
Posting Freak
Posts: 4334
Registered: 1-24-2006
Location: Ardmore PA
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
Honestly, I view the word "terrorist" as a word used by those in power to discredit the actions of those who are fighting against them. The current
administration's definition of the word is so vaguely phrased as to encompass just about any action they disagree with. I see our government as being
happy to keep us in fear of an enemy that is, by it's very nature, impossible to pin down or fight in any real way. That's not to say that I support
any of the actions that were taken against this country and certainly should not be read to imply that I think there was anything heroic or
revolutionary about the cowardly acts of 9/11. I simply mean that the actions taken by people fighting the powers that be can almost always be
classified as some kind of terrorism just because those who are NOT in power have no other means to attack or fight back. By definition those people
cannot declare war even though in all honesty, that is what they are doing. |
My thoughts exactly, 'saint.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with fighting against an occupying nation. Good luck, however, telling the people of various nations worldwide....
especially this one... that. We're one of the most pacified nations on the planet. This fucking country came into existence because people were pissed
off about taxes... almost everyone is pissed about taxes now, or how the IRS handles shit and basically trys to ruin the common man's life if he can't
feasibly pay on their "preferred" method and yet everyone is all "that's just hte way it is." For a fair and democratic society with a constitution
set up to enable the people to make change be it through the political system or revolutionary activity we sure are a bunch of people who just roll
over and accept certain notions. I wonder just how many Americans would actually fight against an occupying force if all the same amenities were
provided by them(TV, internet, video games and movies are major culprits here).
|
|
|
sinister
Member
Posts: 192
Registered: 12-5-2004
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by tireironsaint
I view the word "terrorist" as a word used by those in power to discredit the actions of those who are fighting against them.
|
Agreed. A "terrorist" is someone who can't afford a plane to drop his bombs out of.
But, when you look at the methods employed by some groups, it would definitely appear that their aims are sometimes more about creating "terror" among
the general population than attacking legitimate targets which are at least in some way responsible for the situation.
eg. The IRA here in the UK, I'd feel a bit more sympathy if they'd blown up a few more politicians or targeted state institutions rather than leaving
car bombs in city centres to randomly kill innocent people. (But of course that situation is quite different from the Israel/Palestinian one, due to
the majority of people in Northern Ireland wanting to remain part of the UK). Everytime they'd kill innocent people I'd always think it was such a
waste, not just for the pointless loss of life, but 'cause it wouldn't have taken much more risk or planning to target someone who actually deserved
it.
|
|
|
Voodoobillyman
The Artist Formerly Known As...
Posts: 4247
Registered: 8-12-2005
Location: Eastern Seaboard of the United States
Member Is Offline
Mood: my daughters beautiful curiousity
|
|
I say fuck em all, if we are the "terrorists" history has shown us to be, let's stop pussyfooting around and bring the massacre ( and you all know we
can) to all of em. We could rain hell upon the whole Middle East, Israel included, even if it means our own demise, let's do it. Fuck em all, let
their Gods sort em out. Right? Opinions are like assholes.........you know the rest. We , as a Nation, have fought with our own "humanitarian"
restrictions (for the most part) for far too long, why don't we just fight like everyone else does..... in the wide open, killing everything that
fucking moves. I hate Jews, I hate Muslims, I hate Christians, they all toot horns outta their assholes, fuck em all.
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2 |
![[*]](images/thorp/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
