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XHonusWagnerX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
This is a real shame. I feel very much for the kids family and friends. I have no idea what happened so i am not going to comment on this. It is just
too bad that it went down like this, espically as he was a solider who served his duty to his country and this is the thanks he gets. Bullshit indeed.
RIP.
MM. |
well said. I would like to see more information on the story even though I already went spouting off about it.
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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DaveMoral
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This is a big part of why I don't go to shows anymore.
I hate hardcore.
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necrobutcher
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
This is a big part of why I don't go to shows anymore.
I hate hardcore. |
I can see where you're coming from but it's not hardcore. Like it has been mentioned already it's jackasses that think if they go to a show they have
to prove they are the toughest, baddest motherfuckers alive.
I never could understand it since when I go to a show I'm there because I get to see some bands I like and catch up with friends. Hell, I can't
justify fighting unless I'm in danger or someone I care about is in danger. Truth be told, that happens pretty fucking rarely.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
This is a big part of why I don't go to shows anymore.
I hate hardcore. |
I can see where you're coming from but it's not hardcore. Like it has been mentioned already it's jackasses that think if they go to a show they have
to prove they are the toughest, baddest motherfuckers alive.
I never could understand it since when I go to a show I'm there because I get to see some bands I like and catch up with friends. Hell, I can't
justify fighting unless I'm in danger or someone I care about is in danger. Truth be told, that happens pretty fucking rarely.
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^^^^^^^^ I am not dissing on you at all but I have to say something about what you said. In the past I have defended HARDCORE and what it represents
for a very long time, but lately I thinking and I realised something. Maybe this all is HARDCORE. Maybe this is what hardcore became. Maybe I was
wrong when I defended what I thought hardcore really was. What I was apart of is definitely what it is now. I am not into this. This is not me. As
much as it pains me to say I am not representing this anymore. I hate most new bands. Not because they suck, but because most newer bands come from a
different time. They are not what I am. My hardcore doesn't kill each other. My hardcore doesn't belong to any gang. My hardcore doesn't practice
Karate at shows. I am done with this. I love the stuff I grew up on, but I am throwing in the towel. I am waving the white flag. I am hanging my
hardcore hat in favor of a Cleveland Indians ball cap. I am a Dad. My son does need me to rep clicks and have street cred in any scene. I am not
risking my life for any band that I paid to see play some songs. I see enough drama I don't need it where I go to supposedly kick it with friends.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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JawnDiablo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
This is a big part of why I don't go to shows anymore.
I hate hardcore. |
I can see where you're coming from but it's not hardcore. Like it has been mentioned already it's jackasses that think if they go to a show they have
to prove they are the toughest, baddest motherfuckers alive.
I never could understand it since when I go to a show I'm there because I get to see some bands I like and catch up with friends. Hell, I can't
justify fighting unless I'm in danger or someone I care about is in danger. Truth be told, that happens pretty fucking rarely.
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^^^^^^^^ I am not dissing on you at all but I have to say something about what you said. In the past I have defended HARDCORE and what it represents
for a very long time, but lately I thinking and I realised something. Maybe this all is HARDCORE. Maybe this is what hardcore became. Maybe I was
wrong when I defended what I thought hardcore really was. What I was apart of is definitely what it is now. I am not into this. This is not me. As
much as it pains me to say I am not representing this anymore. I hate most new bands. Not because they suck, but because most newer bands come from a
different time. They are not what I am. My hardcore doesn't kill each other. My hardcore doesn't belong to any gang. My hardcore doesn't practice
Karate at shows. I am done with this. I love the stuff I grew up on, but I am throwing in the towel. I am waving the white flag. I am hanging my
hardcore hat in favor of a Cleveland Indians ball cap. I am a Dad. My son does need me to rep clicks and have street cred in any scene. I am not
risking my life for any band that I paid to see play some songs. I see enough drama I don't need it where I go to supposedly kick it with friends.
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you, sir, are on to something here and I am subscribing to your idea
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Jason the Magnificent
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| Quote: | Originally posted by clevohardcore
| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
This is a big part of why I don't go to shows anymore.
I hate hardcore. |
I can see where you're coming from but it's not hardcore. Like it has been mentioned already it's jackasses that think if they go to a show they have
to prove they are the toughest, baddest motherfuckers alive.
I never could understand it since when I go to a show I'm there because I get to see some bands I like and catch up with friends. Hell, I can't
justify fighting unless I'm in danger or someone I care about is in danger. Truth be told, that happens pretty fucking rarely.
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^^^^^^^^ I am not dissing on you at all but I have to say something about what you said. In the past I have defended HARDCORE and what it represents
for a very long time, but lately I thinking and I realised something. Maybe this all is HARDCORE. Maybe this is what hardcore became. Maybe I was
wrong when I defended what I thought hardcore really was. What I was apart of is definitely what it is now. I am not into this. This is not me. As
much as it pains me to say I am not representing this anymore. I hate most new bands. Not because they suck, but because most newer bands come from a
different time. They are not what I am. My hardcore doesn't kill each other. My hardcore doesn't belong to any gang. My hardcore doesn't practice
Karate at shows. I am done with this. I love the stuff I grew up on, but I am throwing in the towel. I am waving the white flag. I am hanging my
hardcore hat in favor of a Cleveland Indians ball cap. I am a Dad. My son does need me to rep clicks and have street cred in any scene. I am not
risking my life for any band that I paid to see play some songs. I see enough drama I don't need it where I go to supposedly kick it with friends.
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Baseball is better than hardcore anyway...EVEN if your an Indians fan.
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MyOwnWay
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I cant get into this notion at all of this is what Hardcore is. By definiton of itself Hardcore has no definiton but a feeling. Yet when we hear a
band, we know if its Hardcore or not. Even if we dont like a certain band, we recognize the feeling its trying to protray. So by that alone, I do not
feel this violence is Hardcore. Sure, shit happens. But overall violence has been prevelant in the scene for as long as I can remember.
People dying seems to be more frequent and I think that its more an adaptation on where our society is. If good people like you guys back out, and
stop defending what YOUR definition of Hardcore is, we start to lose touch. We've got to continue to speak out and show others that this shit isnt
tolerated and isnt what Hardcore is about. I'm a dad too and I took my daughter to a Hardcore show two weeks ago. Same fucking club this happened at!
And you know, I would take her there again. I dont talk senceless shit, I dont walk around harder than all mentality. I go and enjoy myself and raise
her to appreciate what is around her as well. People die. It happens. But dont denounce yourself from the very culture you stand for. Let others know
this shit isnt cool and its not what its about.
And as far as newer bands. Theres a thousand good ones amongst a million options. But Hardcore is definitely thriving right now. So many good new
bands.
You decide what you want fellas. I respect your opinions and reasoning. But I had to throw my opinion in there.
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Six66Mike
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If this happened at a REAL hardcore show, people wouldn't stand around and let something like this happen. Hardcore is dead. Where's the dudes with
the backbone to say enough is enough & stop shit from happening?
I remember reading shit about FSU in the last 2 years and dudes saying they get blamed for shit they don't even do, if a fight goes down the finger
gets pointed to them.
I watched Boston Beatdown. They take pride in saying "we got the nazis out of Boston Hardcore". Good for you, nobody gives a shit. If you kick the
tough guys out of hardcore so shit like this never happens, then I'll be happy for you.
I hope the dudes who did this get caught & charged with first degree murder. I can't wait to see the Myspace fundraisers for "help raise bail money"
etc on this shit. I hope people finally wake up and say fuck off to this stuff.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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JawnDiablo
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I hope the dudes who did this get caught & charged with first degree murder. I can't wait to see the Myspace fundraisers for "help raise bail money"
etc on this shit. I hope people finally wake up and say fuck off to this stuff.
just for the record, the last time i saw this shit go up, and who it was for, my girl used to know them dudes, and let me just say that they had a rep
for starting shit and being in shit like this all the time. OJ still claims he is innocent too
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Six66Mike
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Fundraisers to get out of jail or lawyer fees is fucking retarded.
Raise money for sick people and those who truly need it. I'm sick of the saturation of really bad fundraiser shows. The other foot in the grave for
"hardcore".
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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godabandonedme
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Posts: 758
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Location: Philadelphia
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I used to stick to the idea that hardcore was for "kids" who had it HARD. Not a personality type. For people that had to fight at shows back in 80's
and shit because of what was going on in those times. Now, anyone pissed at their mommy and daddy from whothefuckknowswhereville can somehow pick up
a hardcore cd and identify with it? That's bullshit in my opinion. These retards don't know what real violence is, what real hate and sorrow is.
Killed an Iraqi War Veteran. Hope that sits well with the "scene".
\"Leave the gun....take the canolis.\"
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RomanticViolence
* Jennytailya *
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Location: Baltimore MD
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| Quote: | Originally posted by thedog
this is terrible.
senseless violence. |
Yes indeed. 
Have you ever noticed how crayons are a lot like M&M's? All the colors tend to taste the same.
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defstarsteve
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I can see both the points that clevo and my own way are presenting and they are both partially correct
the hardcore we grew up with is still alive and if you believe in it don't turn your back
but don't take this shit lying down either...
if there is an element of the "scene" that is repping violence
don't support them,
don't go to their shows
if you know a band that is true is playing on a show with shit heads,
email them let them know that even though you respect the band they are in but they are playing with people who suck and should see about either
getting a different date or finding a different venue
if they choose to take the side of the shit heads in the situation
you know in turn they suck as well
we are in the most connected era ever and any memebr of any band can be reached out to to know what's up
book shows for bands that you know are not idiots
write blogs, and send them to those who support good hardcore and inform them of bands that suck
basically reinvent the scene and exclude those who are causing the shit
take this thing back from making money and enemies to being about a community again
we are the freaks and we are supposed to watch each others backs
not have to watch our backs around each other
support good hardcore and shun the idiots
I feel for this man's family and I hope more people wake up and take a stand against this kind of bullshit
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Siczine.com
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Hardcore has always had it's ups and downs, even back in the golden ages, but for some reason I doubt it was as golden as it's made out to be. There
was violence then and there is violence now. Sadly that seems to be how life is no matter what section of society it is. I enjoy good music, whether
it's Bach, Victor Wooten, Cro Mags, Carcass, Reef The Lost Cauze, Henry Miller. The one thing I've really grown irritated about hardcore is that
everything has to follow the same outline otherwise it isn't hardcore, I thought hardcore was supposed to be for thinking outside the box yet every
band that attempts something new gets ostracized for it.
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necrobutcher
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Clevo, I can see your point. A couple of older guys I know have told me some absolute horror stories about some of the shows they have been to,
particularly Allentown and Reading about 10 or 15 years ago when 3/4 of the crowd were flag waving Nazis. However, as bad as those are, I have never
heard of anyone dying at any of those (out of curiousity, does anyone know any differently?).
Another thought crossed my mind as well. Is this where hardcore is going? Will we be seeing shows get to the point where no venue will have them
because it's a guaranteed bloodbath? Hell, I'll even say that there are some shows I think twice about going to unless I'm there with a group or it's
my home town venue.
Plus a family changes a lot. I have no wife or kids so I still go to shows not really worried about getting into something, not that I look for
trouble but I can't imagine the misery of someone who busts his ass to make ends meet getting put in the hospital or the morgue because some fuck
wants to prove he is tough.
That entire thing still annoys me. I would rather be the guy who can make my friends laugh so hard they can't breathe than the guy who can beat
everyone up.
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JawnDiablo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
Clevo, I can see your point. A couple of older guys I know have told me some absolute horror stories about some of the shows they have been to,
particularly Allentown and Reading about 10 or 15 years ago when 3/4 of the crowd were flag waving Nazis. However, as bad as those are, I have never
heard of anyone dying at any of those (out of curiousity, does anyone know any differently?).
when I was 17 I saw some dude get "stomped" to death by AC skins at a Bolt Thrower show in Pensauken NJ by AC Skins |
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JawnDiablo
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That entire thing still annoys me. I would rather be the guy who can make my friends laugh so hard they can't breathe than the guy who can beat
everyone up.
Yeah that's pretty much me too dude.
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BDx13
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| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
A couple of older guys I know have told me some absolute horror stories about some of the shows they have been to, particularly Allentown and Reading
about 10 or 15 years ago when 3/4 of the crowd were flag waving Nazis. However, as bad as those are, I have never heard of anyone dying at any of
those (out of curiousity, does anyone know any differently?).
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That's absolutely accurate. Pretty much any show held in eastern PA NOT in Philly during the late 80s to mid 90s had nazi skins in attendance. The
Chameleon in Lancaster, Unisound in Reading, Airport City Music Hall in Allentown...there have been full-scale riots at each of these venues. That's
not to say they didn't show up at shows in the city, just not as often (it seemed to me, anyway).
Juan, was that the "Warmaster" tour in 89? I remember the attendees being almost exclusively AC Skins. I remember things gettin' hot durign the Bolt
Thrower set once said skins started sieg heiling the band. I remember their roadie tossin' skins around by the throat and Jo-Anne Bench bashing
people over the head with her bass. But I didn't know anyone died at that show (I didn't stay until the end).
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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godabandonedme
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AAAArrrrggghhhhh (*agravated pirate noise). I typed a whole bunch of crap and erased it. Long story short is, this isn't hardcore. This is a bunch
of fucks no different then jocks, no different then bullies, no different then the everyday society that we rebeled against in the begining to get
AWAY from shit like this. We all got into this for that very reason (I hope). Because we were different and weren't accepted anywhere else. These
assholes are no different then a bunch of high school tough guy types, when they are together. Hurting someone is one thing, I hope the nightmares
haunt them for the rest of their lives. No matter what it's for, killing someone is not a fucking joke, I know unfortunatlly. I hope the guilt
drives them all to slow suicides, or, leaves the rest of their lives pitifull wrecks of what they used to be.
\"Leave the gun....take the canolis.\"
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JawnDiablo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BD
| Quote: | Originally posted by necrobutcher
A couple of older guys I know have told me some absolute horror stories about some of the shows they have been to, particularly Allentown and Reading
about 10 or 15 years ago when 3/4 of the crowd were flag waving Nazis. However, as bad as those are, I have never heard of anyone dying at any of
those (out of curiousity, does anyone know any differently?).
|
That's absolutely accurate. Pretty much any show held in eastern PA NOT in Philly during the late 80s to mid 90s had nazi skins in attendance. The
Chameleon in Lancaster, Unisound in Reading, Airport City Music Hall in Allentown...there have been full-scale riots at each of these venues. That's
not to say they didn't show up at shows in the city, just not as often (it seemed to me, anyway).
Juan, was that the "Warmaster" tour in 89? I remember the attendees being almost exclusively AC Skins. I remember things gettin' hot durign the Bolt
Thrower set once said skins started sieg heiling the band. I remember their roadie tossin' skins around by the throat and Jo-Anne Bench bashing
people over the head with her bass. But I didn't know anyone died at that show (I didn't stay until the end). |
yeah man, the singer had this nunchuck looking thing he was swinging around.
and of all the people to be with i was with my Perubian friend,(real popuar with the big baldies)
i never went back to that place again and i think it shut down soon after.
at the end of all that crap the victim was lying face down on the floor bleeding out of his ears. the cops came. we were more or less abandoning ship
at this point. a skinny long hair like me at the time was really in the wrong place.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
Posts: 12937
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I remeber shows with Sharp Skins, Rascist skins, Metal heads, Punk Rock, GG followers, Krishnas, xSEx, bikers, and peoples of all other groups. I have
been to hundreds of shows over the course of nearly 20 years of my life. I have witnessed gang fights been involved in fights. Caused fights, Helped
friends out in fights, been jumped, and even through a few unanswered punches. I hung with some groups around clevo and even repped them a few times,
but never subscribed to them. I was cool with some of them who were in them. I hung out at bars drank with Clevo Last Resort. As well as some skins
from way back in the day. Shows were better back then. Fights are always an issue. Death was not. A friend of mine who I grew up with was jumped by
Skins from Detroit at the AGNOSTIC FRONT tour in '92' for ONE VOICE. Matt was beat over the head with a pipe while he was already knocked out. For
what reason? No one even knows. Not even him. It was on Cleveland news and he was lifeflighted to trauma hospital. He was there for nearly 3 months.
Dude almost died. He still suffers from it.
A girl I knew from Last Resort was also jumped by some Kung Fu fucker in 98 at a SKARHEAD show. Ya she was talkin shit but dude smashed her in the
face. Then with hsi other buddy started whipping on kids trying to stop it. They jetted really quick when the other Last Resort people began to find
out what happened. I think they were from Youngstown. Whatever though.
Fighting has been around for ever in Hardcore. Its not new, but things are very different. I seee people intentionally going to fight at shows and
carrying the gang mentality even before they hit the door. It's not about "Lets rep out crew" its now about "let's kick some ass" Forget about kickin
it at shows anymore. Forget about talking to friends and meeting chicks. Its all about watching your back around people you are supposed to share some
sort of unity with.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
Posts: 12937
Registered: 9-19-2004
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I remember ONE LIFE CREW showing up to see EARTH CRISIS, SNAPCASE and STRIFE swinging folding chairs at kids during SNAPCASE. MEAN STEVE ending the
show in the middle of it.
I measn seriously? What was the point of that? OLC showing they can beat up 15 year old Vegans back in 1993?
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
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OLC was terrible in my opinion
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BKT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juandiablo
OLC was terrible in my opinion |
OLC was one of the best bands in hardcore. I saw them twice, once in Clevo when that huge riot started and once in Detroit with Cold As Life, and
Krutch. Funny in Detroit they did not run their mouths at all. None the less that band made a mark and put out some great music in the process.
Hardcore needed them at the time, it was getting a little too gay.
MM.
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JawnDiablo
Posting Freak
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sorry, never cared for them.
i had one cd by them with that dude in handcuffs on the front of it. didnt like it. sold it on ebay for $42 though
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