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VICTORY v. HAWTHORNE HEIGHTS update
http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_...
Hawthorne Heights Wins Partial Legal Victory
March 06, 2007, 5:45 PM ET
Susan Butler, N.Y.
A federal judge in Chicago handed Hawthorne Heights a partial victory over Victory Records yesterday (March 5). Judge James Moran held that Victory
does not hold exclusive rights for the band's recording services. Simply put, it means the band can record for any label.
Band members Eron Bucciarelli-Tieger, Casey Calvert, Micah Carli, Matt Ridenour and JT Woodruff sued Victory and label head Tony Brummel last August.
They claimed that Brummel's "tactics" and "scheming" severely damaged the band's reputation and its relationship with fans.
Among other things, the band asked the court to declare that their recording contract with Victory was non-exclusive so they could record for any
label, and to declare that the band members -- not Victory -- own the copyrights in their first two albums.
Victory fought back, suing Virgin Records and EMI Music North America, which allegedly signed the band. Victory claimed that the major label
wrongfully interfered with its contractual relationship with Hawthorne Heights. The indie label alleged that the major label "poached" the band from
Victory even though the group still had two more records to deliver under its contract.
Then, Victory filed a motion in the suit brought by the band members, trying to dismiss their complaint. Victory argued that the recording contract
was still binding and required the band to record exclusively for the label.
In yesterday's ruling, the court held that the contract does not give Victory the right to the band's exclusive recording services. "The agreement
contains no exclusivity provision, nor does any of its language appear to prevent [the band] from recording elsewhere during the life of the
agreement," the judge wrote.
Although the contract was written clearly enough for the court to rule on it, other claims required additional evidence, the court said. So the court
refused to dismiss or rule on claims about copyright ownership of the recordings, trademark infringement and invasion of privacy. However, the court
dismissed the band's claim for fraud, among others.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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Wow. SO pretty much nothign was accomplished? They ruled in the bands favor but did not elaborate on the copywritten songs?
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Six66Mike
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haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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joe
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fuck victory. this sucks to say i use to be a huge fan
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Muttley
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Tony has done this so many times with so many bands.... even if they get off I'm sure he'll find a way to get a lot of cash out of the deal... he did
it with Hatebreed, Boysetsfire and a few more I can't think of right now. He's a ridiculously tough businessman.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money. |
Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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What the hell does Tony Brummell look like? Seriously I never saw a picture of him before. Is he even a real person? Its almost like he is a walking
letter V.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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BDx13
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If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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CR83
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Muttley
Tony has done this so many times with so many bands.... even if they get off I'm sure he'll find a way to get a lot of cash out of the deal... he did
it with Hatebreed, Boysetsfire and a few more I can't think of right now. He's a ridiculously tough businessman.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money. |
Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think. |
What did he get in the "hatebreed deal"?
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JawnDiablo
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Paul Bearer was cussing him out onstage when I saw the last sheer terror show in 04
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Muttley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ChrisReed83
| Quote: | Originally posted by Muttley
Tony has done this so many times with so many bands.... even if they get off I'm sure he'll find a way to get a lot of cash out of the deal... he did
it with Hatebreed, Boysetsfire and a few more I can't think of right now. He's a ridiculously tough businessman.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Six66Mike
haha can't say I'm surprised, as if Victory can afford lawyers good enough to fight Virgin or EMI money. |
Considering the fact that Tony won against Universal in the Hatebreed situation, his chances are better than you think. |
What did he get in the "hatebreed deal"? |
Hatebreed wanted out (like most Victory bands do) and he wouldn't let them go unless he got a serious dollar figure out of the deal. And he did. I
don't remember the number but it was significant. It had to be, otherwise he never would have let the deal happen. And I'm pretty sure the first
record on Universal had the Victory logo on it too.
He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War.
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JUICE MAYNE MSHC
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| Quote: |
He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War. |
or Ringworm
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Discipline
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What a cunt.
It's like back in the day when he didn't want to pay Integrity any of the profits from their first 7".
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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BDx13
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did jamey get support to buy back his contract? i was under the impression he did it himself. but that's going back to what i heard at the time, so
there's not a lot of substance behind that. either way, it worked out well for him.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JUICE MAYNE MSHC
| Quote: |
He would rather drop dead than let you out of your deal. Just ask All Out War. |
or Ringworm |
^^^^^^^^ unless your O.L.C then he will drop you like a fat heffer.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
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Ya i heard Jasta paid up the money himself. It was like 200k or something. He had to do a loan. I know nothing but it would be cool to find out.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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JUICE MAYNE MSHC
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Ringworm should put "Pure Disgust" on their new album so they'll get dropped
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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What I don't get is why would a band sign for a long term with him when he has that reputation?
I mean seriously. Signa 1 or 2 record deal and be done with it. I understnad when a band is not huge right away, but why sign your life away right off
the bat.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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upyerbum
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This isn't punk. Very unpunk. When did money enter into punk? Fuck Victory Records.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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Jason the Magnificent
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People sign with him for those long contratcs because thats all he does. When you're in a band thats going nowhere and you have some guy offering you
the world ...in relative indie terms...odds are you're going to chance it. The when by some some chance you get a good following you have to pay the
price.
The better story is how he got his nickname "soapy jack"
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exactly. for most bands, signing with victory is a significant bump in their career and any cons are quickly outweighed by the pros.
his business is run like a machine, and any band that gets put through that machine is almost guaranteed to sell X number of cds. and by signing a
band for multiple albums, they get put through the machine multiple times, selling more and more each time.
all i'm sayin is, the guy knows how to make some money.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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crazyfists28
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its a business and businesses are supposed to make money so if you dont want to be part of the business, put the album out on your own or find another
way.
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Muttley
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To go along with the last couple of posts on here, I gotta say that if you're in a band and you sign that deal, you've gotta know what you're getting
into. I've heard that Tony does things to piss bands off (like promo whoopie cushions) but when you sign the deal that's the kind of shit that can
happen. He definitely gets you on some tours if you play your cards right, and a lot of his bands have really blown up big internationally. The
stories are out there about him, so it's pretty much a sign at your own risk thing.
It's really not all that much different from what a label like Roadrunner does... long term deal and they usually take over your merch too. Maybe
they're not quite as dickish about it @ Roadrunner, but it's still pretty much the same shit.
I don't know if Tony does this, but Roadrunner signs each individual member of the band to their own contract. If you quit the band, they still get
first crack on anything new you put together.
Having worked for labels and distributors PLUS been in bands for years, I've seen a lot of stupid shit happen. And I have to say that Tony was always
cool to me when I dealt with him (I used to work for Red, their distributor). I've seen him be a dick at times, but to me it was always him being a
shrewd businessman... the asshole tends to make more money than the nice guy. The music biz is some real cutthroat shit.
By the way, anybody own that "Victory Porno"?
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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Victory porno? I heard of this a while back. What is that about?
Also I aint dissin his ethics. I mean a business is a business but as a band you ahve to watch your back a bit. NOt to say cut your throat and NOT
sign with Victory if the offer is there but know what your getting into and not signing your rights as a person in a band away. CHECKS AND BALANCES
between label and band.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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clevohardcore
* Kick\'n ass on the wild side *
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It must have been pretty sweet for Tony back in the early 90's when everyone was up his ass to be on that label.
Each aspect of the soul has it's own part to play, but the ideal is harmonious agreement with reason and control.
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Jason the Magnificent
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He was a douche then too. Like the little dog that chased Spike around in the Tom and Jerry cartoons.
"whats up kid!"-ing everyone he saw, hanging out in bathrooms around people smoking blunts because he "liked the smell", getting shook down for free
beers from people, getting caught jerking off in the bathroom with hand soap for lube...total stroke.
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