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newbreedbrian
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Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and
"punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot
of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential
bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the
country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the
bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class,
Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the
same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like
it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black
gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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ENDERA.x
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| Quote: | Originally posted by newbreedbrian
Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and
"punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot
of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential
bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the
country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the
bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class,
Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the
same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like
it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black
gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.
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The only thing here I don't agree with is the pretending to be a black gangster bit. Thats just ridiculous.
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Six66Mike
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I don't even try to categorize my music anymore so the Genre field in my ID3 tags is generally empty.
Hardcore now is just an umbrella term like metal. There's black, death, speed, thrash etc genres within metal, and hardcore is now the same. There's
posi, old skool, thug, beatdown etc but it all falls under the Hardcore umbrella.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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ENDERA.x
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"the hardcore umbrella",
"a short short story by" uber mike.
for fans of: ID3 coders
lol
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beaner
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ChrisReed83
| Quote: | Originally posted by ENDERA.x
Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.
You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc
You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc
You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc
i second that. very very well put. its exactly as i feel.
You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc
its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are
in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the
bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different
style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres
still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so
I do believe though that Hardcore as a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and
the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics
that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha. |
Very well put |
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Discipline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ENDERA.x
| Quote: | Originally posted by newbreedbrian
Most of the new bands and people seem a million miles away from the stuff I grew up on. And I fully agree, this whole separation of "hardcore" and
"punk" is stupid. It was called hardcore punk for a reason. It was punk amped up in speed and energy and actually backing up the DIY ethic that alot
of bands payed lip service to but dropped as soon as it was convenient in the 70s. Black Flag were quite simply one of the most important/influential
bands in the history of music. They were the first ones to jump in a van, book their own tours, and go get abused in every shithole town in the
country. Without them, so many regional punk scenes wouldn't have existed in the early 80s. And tireiron is quite right, you could actually tell the
bands apart unlike most of whats coming out today. Big Boys, Samoans, Flag, Black Market Baby, SSD, Husker Du, Replacements, Bad Brains, Middle Class,
Circle Jerks, Fair Warning, Genetic Control, GBH the list goes on and on. I can tell all those bands apart but all feel like they were coming from the
same thing doing it their own way. I rarely get that feeling from a new band. The Bad Vibes is a great example of a band that feels right to me, like
it came from the same scene I did. Bad generic metal with boring lyrics/breakdown/mosh parts is not the same thing. Nor is pretending you're a black
gangster for fuck's sake. As far as what I should or shouldn't get out of, feel free to go fuck yourself. You either get it or you don't.
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The only thing here I don't agree with is the pretending to be a black gangster bit. Thats just ridiculous. |
Not really. A lot of the so-called "thugs" in the hardcore scene look like they've seen too many hip hop videos. Jimmy Gestapo grew up in Queens,
you don't see him all thugged out. Roger Miret grew up in the same place as all the DMS guys, do you see him acting like he's a thug? No.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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ENDERA.x
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So I guess all the guys in TERROR and Countime and all are pretending to be black eh? (i'm jus fuckin with you but I would like to here what you say
about that)
It's ridiculous. I won't deny that there are some people out there that want to follow the "black" urban fashion, but it's not only them that dress
that way its just how we associate it. It's URBAN. Whoever dresses that way it's their thing, spanish gangsters dress the same way and they hate the
blacks. So because they look like that they are pretending to be black too? You have to look more into this and not just assume because someone looks
like that they are trying to be black, come on I made ignorant judgments like that when I was 15. Saying that rap is gay hiphop is gay pull up your
pants whatever.... then I grew up and said fuck it. Who cares. It's just fashion. NOW if those people you see in the hardcore scene come up to you
and say Yo man whuttup G whats poppin yo then punch them in the face. I know some people from the Detroit/Windsor scene and they may look like they
only listen to hiphop but whats the shirt they are wearing none only than a very good hardcore band that no common black man or thug would even know
about. Just because they are in hardcore or know what it is to me tells me enough to know or at least happily assume they aren't as ignorant as your
common person pretending to be black... seriously. Get off it. You don't like how they look, doesn't mean that its confined to blacks only. Fuck!
I live in an area thats 40% black, 30% brown, 20% asian 5% white and 5% other. I see it all...
But I will give you this, where you go to shows, there may very well be someone there that wants to replicate the black image, but try talking to them
first, and see what they are about. And I don't want to hear you say "im not going to talk to someone who looks like that" because then you should be
no better than a nazi. Sorry. Then come back to me and say what the outcome was.
Fashion means nothing to me, but everything to some, I know this. It shouldn't matter to you. And saying those guys (Jimmy Gestapo, Roger Miret) came
from the ghetto doesn't mean they have to dress like that urban style, very well, I come from the ghetto and I don't look like that either. Do Danny
Diablo and most of the DMS guys think they are black? How about the BFL dudes? I don't think so. You obviously just have a dislike for the fashion
style and are judging everyone that looks like that or at least the ones you've seen at shows as wanting to be black. Get over it.
I can safely do that here on the street, but at a show, I wouldn't assume that just because the look different or fit another common fashion style.
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Now getting back on track with the topic instead of this mass digression a submit a repost of the following:
Im just going to say that it's both - its a mixture of the two.
You can look at Madball, Skarhead, Agnostic Front, etc
You can look at Gorilla Biscuits, YOT, Warzone, SSD, Bad Brains.. etc
You can look at Strength For A Reason, Cold As Life, RYKERS, Death Before Dishonor, Irate, etc
You could even look at Ignite, With Honor, Comeback Kid, Misconduct- etc
its all hardcore to me. I like all of it. Just different sounds for people who came from different backgrounds, with something in common, they all are
in the underground, they all love shows, slightly different sounds yes, but, they all have the love and the heart for the music they make and the
bands they love, the shows the see. Etc. I think we're still united that way, even if its someone you don't like at a show that listens to a different
style of hardcore than you do, I think if you saw them in a fight on the street (for example) you' would have their back regardless because theres
still an understanding that you have. At least thats how it is with me. I'm not like everyone else though... so
I do believe though that Hardcore is a sound, all those styles have similar sounds in common... similar two steps, breakdowns if any, the speed and
the energy. It's not the same as metal or anything else. It's hardcore... in its few sub-genres it still flows in a very similar manner with lyrics
that flow (usually) like poems or rhyme even like a hiphop song would only with lyrics that mean more. Haha.
The message might be slightly different, but I believe the principles remain the same, or very similiar.
If there is no emphasis are unity and friendship, dedication and respect,. then it's not hardcore in that respect. Because it might be with a sound,
but not with the lifestyle to it.
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Discipline
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My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the
crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at
people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few
of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.
My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're
laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough.
They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the
fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the
day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.
When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about.
It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against
injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.
That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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upyerbum
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Thug, gangsta, rap, all that shit sucks, DMS has fuck all to do with hardcore (DMS Travel is a case in point), but the question is, if this shit is
taking over your scene, what are you doing about it? Talk-Action=0.
Well, its this place where nobody works, and the pigs don\'t give you any shit. Everyone smokes weed and gets drunk all day. Its a place where
cunts like me and you can truly take it easy and relax. Know what I mean?
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DaveMoral
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The east coast is pretty much lost to hardcore then... real hardcore I mean. The shit is overrun with real gangsters and fakes too. I was just
listening to Runnin' Riot from Ireland today... and I was thinking, so much Oi is ten times harder than most shit that comes out of the hardcore scene
that's trying to be "hard" and since fuckin' when did "hard" mean you have to tune your fucking guitar down to like C and do double bass rolls all
over the place and then beat the living shit out of a your crash cymbals? I like some that shit, but goddamn it it's old as hell now that everyone is
doing Hatebreed 10.0 over and over and over again. Shit, even Hatebreed aren't as good as they once were... too many of the same riffs over and over
and over again.
It's those motherfuckers than need to hang it up. I liked some early Sworn Enemy and then they just become the umpteenth Slayer clone from the
hardcore scene. I mean, seriously, when's it going to end?
Hardcore bands take themselves so goddamned seriously these days that the fun's sucked right out of it... even the so-called "posi" bands take
themselves so serious. You know who's a tight "beatdown" type band? North Side Kings, you know why? Because it's so tongue-in-cheek I can't help but
crack up everytime I listen to them. That's a good chunk of what hardcore's all about!
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
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I'm with Dave on this one. NSK fucking rule.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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newbreedbrian
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the
crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at
people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few
of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.
My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're
laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough.
They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the
fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the
day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.
When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about.
It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against
injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.
That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.
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exactly. couldn't have said it better. and i see enough white kids from the suburbs pretending they're black kids from the ghetto on a day to day
basis outside "the scene". i don't need to see it here too. and enough " i grew up in relative affluence but i moved to a poor neighborhood when i
was 20 for the cheap rent, so now i'm hard and down". pfft....i live in the same shithole neighborhood i grew up in and i feel zero need to think that
makes me hard or gangsta. thugcore and all it's bull shit contrived lyrics and image is retarded. mike is right, real hard men have no need to tell
you, you'll find out if you fuck around. and all that money and bitches shit is fucking stupid. it's been dragging down hip hop for years and now
doing the same with hardcore. being proud of pretending to talk like you can't speak english is stupid. and once again hardcore was defined from
78-86. anyone who "hates that old shit" doesn't get it and never will. come up with a new name for the current pile of shit already.
The very existence of flamethrowers proves that sometime, somewhere, someone said to themselves, ?You know, I want to set those people over there on
fire, but I?m just not close enough to get the job done.? George Carlin
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Voodoobillyman
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I like NSK
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JawnDiablo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
I'm with Dave on this one. NSK fucking rule. |
oh hell yeah
NSK blow away most of the bands in the genre.
I can't wait for the new CD
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JawnDiablo
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One time, years ago, I played the first Black Sabbath record at 78 speed. I saw god. That was pretty hardcore if I must say so myself.
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ENDERA.x
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Discipline
My problem is that with the fashion often comes the mentality. I've met plenty of guys at shows in Toronto who come in acting like they're in the
crips or something equally retarded. I got in a fight with a some guys at a show about 6-7 years ago. They came in and were spoutin off shit at
people, trying to act like they were straight up gangsters. They tried to run up on people like they were something. That was a mistake, and a few
of us met them outside after the show and showed them the error of their ways.
My problem is less the fashion, more the thug line of thought. I've listened to the lyrics of some of these "thigcore" bands, and to me they're
laughable. A bunch of guys trying to sound tough. Let me say this, in most cases, the toughest guys out there are the ones who don't talk tough.
They're usually relaxed and cool, until you fuck with them. The thug thing doesn't fit in with hardcore's original ideals. These guys act like the
fucking jocks you would see in high school. Hardcore was about getting away from that bullshit. There were some badass guys in the scene back in the
day, but they didn't have 25 songs talking about it.
When I see guys like Danny Diablo saying it's all about the drugs, money, and sex, I get annoyed. That's not what hardcore was supposed to be about.
It was unity against the outside world. It was fighting back at a system that wants to make you a clone. It was about about fighting back against
injustice and social inequality. It wasn't about drugs, money, & sex.
That is why I hate the thug shit. Along with the fact that most of it is badly played metal with a couple of breakdowns and cheesy lyrics.
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I agree.
and DD annoys the fuck out of me to be honest.
And people like that at that show are fucking morons to begin with for sure I see that shit allll the time and it pisses me off.
And, about the real being the ones that don't show off their shit all the time, thats also very true.
They don't need to boast about their shit that mostly means that they are fake. But not always. They just like to show it off.
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ENDERA.x
Posting Freak
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
I liked some early Sworn Enemy and then they just become the umpteenth Slayer clone from the hardcore scene. I mean, seriously, when's it going to
end?
Hardcore bands take themselves so goddamned seriously these days that the fun's sucked right out of it... even the so-called "posi" bands take
themselves so serious. |
^^  yep.
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ENDERA.x
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| Quote: | Originally posted by newbreedbrian
exactly. couldn't have said it better. and i see enough white kids from the suburbs pretending they're black kids from the ghetto on a day to day
basis outside "the scene". i don't need to see it here too. and enough " i grew up in relative affluence but i moved to a poor neighborhood when i
was 20 for the cheap rent, so now i'm hard and down". pfft....i live in the same shithole neighborhood i grew up in and i feel zero need to think that
makes me hard or gangsta. thugcore and all it's bull shit contrived lyrics and image is retarded. mike is right, real hard men have no need to tell
you, you'll find out if you fuck around. and all that money and bitches shit is fucking stupid. it's been dragging down hip hop for years and now
doing the same with hardcore. being proud of pretending to talk like you can't speak english is stupid. and once again hardcore was defined from
78-86. anyone who "hates that old shit" doesn't get it and never will. come up with a new name for the current pile of shit already.
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i still have yet to see any of these types at hardcore shows. at least not here. and this pathetic city is full of people like that. they don't have
a clue what hardcore is and wouldn't be caught dead at a "rock" concert.
anyway,
the scene here has always been dead to me too. any hardcore bands from here are all posi - youth crew bands wanting to sound old school and all sound
the same to be and are fake for the most part. i realized that in the first year i went to shows here. and they didn't like me because i liked more
styles of music and came from a different background and lifestyle that they did. pathetic. stood my ground - and now I do things my way here and I'm
happy with it. I do my shows with my friends. and I've watched most of those people fall out enitrely, they being the ones that talked the most shit
and acted like they had been around forever.
but thats toronto for you...
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DaveMoral
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ENDERA.x I do things my way here and I'm happy with it. I do my shows with my friends.
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Now that's hardcore!
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BKT
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There have not been good hardcore shows in Toronto for years. I remember seeing bands like All Out War, The Hoods, Madball, Mushmouth, No Retreat, Day
Of Mourning, Pitboss 2000, Skarhead, and so on back in the day. There were some greatshows here. The scene has always been filled with pussies though,
but way back some great shows came through Toronto.
MM.
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ENDERA.x
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| Quote: | Originally posted by metal mulisha
There have not been good hardcore shows in Toronto for years. I remember seeing bands like All Out War, The Hoods, Madball, Mushmouth, No Retreat, Day
Of Mourning, Pitboss 2000, Skarhead, and so on back in the day. There were some greatshows here. The scene has always been filled with pussies though,
but way back some great shows came through Toronto.
MM. |
Oh, indeed.
Fudd actually recently called it quits, doesn't want to be in any more bands. Says its time to move on :/ which is unfortunate, but with the luck hes
had in his last few bands the members couldn't keep it together for more than 2 years.
I wish there were still shows like that here, I mean, I could do em' but who would come. Hardly anybody. It would still be worth it to me though.
I remember not that long ago actually, Vietnom came, and I was suprised at the turnout, it wasn't alot by any means but at least more than I had
expected. They played with In Time which I thought was odd, a forward thinkin posi band that I love from here. The other bands were Pray For Death who
were just comin out then, and, Fate 2 Hate I believe were fucking amazing, and some other band I can't even remember who at this point. But that was
one of the best shows' for me in Toronto. And there were about three people in total dancin it up during parts of the sets. I was all about it. Even
that you don't get here anymore.
Sworn enemy, three years ago, 20-30 kids would come out, it was amazing., but now, still only 20-40 kids come out, and its all numetal faggots. Fuck
THAT shit. I doubt I wanna see them again at all and its been like this for a while now.
Ugh..
but fuck I'm on a roll this week with posts.
Time for bed its 2am. Nite ya'll
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DaveMoral
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Fate 2 Hate was tight. Union Made is even better.
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Discipline
* DRUNKEN MONKEY *
Posts: 11900
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: Over here
Member Is Offline
Mood: The Alley Dukes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaveMoral
Fate 2 Hate was tight. Union Made is even better. |
Definitely. Union Made are cool guys. I met them when I saw them open for AF. Great fucking band.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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ENDERA.x
Posting Freak
Posts: 1378
Registered: 12-2-2003
Location: Toronto
Member Is Offline
Mood: Icepick
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Yes union made!
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Six66Mike
Posting Freak
Posts: 3090
Registered: 11-20-2003
Location: Queensland Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Dead Hearts
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Wasn't Vietnom at Kathedral with Rag Men & A Taste For Blood?
Sworn Enemy headline at Rockit with A Taste For Blood & Alwaus Die Fighting, that was bad lol. "Do you wanna hear am old one?" *silence* "come on who
wants to hear IDS?" *silence* "ok fuck you then we'll play a new one".
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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