MyOwnWay
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Your thoughts on this topic
Life Of Agony vs. Under One Flag
What are your thought on all of this?
...For those who may not know. As part of a preorder package Under One Flag offered a Tshirt with their name, name of the album, and the LOA logo.
Life Of Agony sent them a statement asking for cease and desist or charges would be pressed.
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XHonusWagnerX
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why did it have the LOA logo on it?
| Quote: | Originally posted by REV.PAULIE
HONUS-as much as i can't stand a great deal of what you really like (for my own reasons that i would never hold,nor impose,against you),YOU FUCKING
RULE!
YOU,HONUS,IS WHAT MAKES THE "EDGE" COOL.
YOUR FRIEND,
PAULIE |
check out my post contributions at www.VinylNoize.com
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MyOwnWay
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It was the four skull logo, LOA uses. The idea of UOF using it was to be a knock-off shirt.
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Discipline
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I've gotta side with LOA on this. If it was done as a parody then I have no problem with it. If it was just a knock-off then it is trying to catch
peoples eyes using another bands logo to hopefully sell more shirts.
‘Do you know what a love letter is? It’s a bullet from a fucking gun. Straight through your heart.’
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Muttley
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It's copyrighted, LOA is 100% right on this one.
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Murk
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are there any pictures of each example?
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JawnDiablo
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I JUST WANT MP3S / OR A CD OF THE FIRST2 demos they did.
i have them on tapes, badly worn tapes.
after river runs red, i washed my hands of them....
on a funnier note, a friend of mine had an extra ticket to the show in philly they played with mudvaybe a few years back...im in the audience and who
do i run ito but Mark Neuman of Sheer Terror...weird
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JawnDiablo
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oh by the way..im fuckin ripped
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MyOwnWay
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Before I get started, let me just say... I support JuanDiablo's drunk posts!!
Ok... I'll continue.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Muttley
It's copyrighted, LOA is 100% right on this one. |
Gary. Lets debate this. Because I was originaly thinking as you are. LOA had it copywritten, stop thieving other peoples shit, end of story.
But I got to thinking. Why is this different than any other parody shirt. ( I used the word knock-off earlier and in context I was wrong). They used
that logo under their own name, but what seperates them from the other parody shirts. Even for example... The BCS Jumpman Michael Jordan parody of
Martin. Or Honus' Danzig skull Slapshot shirt?
This UOF band isnt selling the shirts per se, it was to be free with preorder. So I'm a bit on the fence on this topic now.
Your thoughts?
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defstarsteve
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a parody of an original piece of art is allowed as long as the parody is altered over 10% from the original
I saw the example of the shirt in question...
and it was a straight rip-off with a new name over it...
they could have done something to make it a little different
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Muttley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by juandiablo
I JUST WANT MP3S / OR A CD OF THE FIRST2 demos they did.
i have them on tapes, badly worn tapes.
after river runs red, i washed my hands of them....
on a funnier note, a friend of mine had an extra ticket to the show in philly they played with mudvaybe a few years back...im in the audience and who
do i run ito but Mark Neuman of Sheer Terror...weird |
Mark Neuman actually works for Columbia Records, LOA's label. He's been there for many years at this point. I actually think he was the one who got
them signed when they got back together.
| Quote: | Originally posted by MyOwnWay
Gary. Lets debate this. Because I was originaly thinking as you are. LOA had it copywritten, stop thieving other peoples shit, end of story.
But I got to thinking. Why is this different than any other parody shirt. ( I used the word knock-off earlier and in context I was wrong). They used
that logo under their own name, but what seperates them from the other parody shirts. Even for example... The BCS Jumpman Michael Jordan parody of
Martin. Or Honus' Danzig skull Slapshot shirt?
This UOF band isnt selling the shirts per se, it was to be free with preorder. So I'm a bit on the fence on this topic now.
Your thoughts? |
Funny you mentioned the Danzig Slapshot shirt, I was actually thinking of the North Side Kings Danzig shirt. In any case if Danzig were to shoot off a
letter, Danzig would be 100% in the right.
The BCS shirt is modified enough that's it's subject to debate. You'd be surprised by the number of people who DON'T get the Air Jordan reference. And
even fewer get the more direct reference to Big Pun. And when it comes down to it, if I told you that was from an actual photo of Martin (and produced
said photo) you really wouldn't have much of a case.
I personally thought the UOF shirt was a little TOO close for comfort. And I'm not surprised they got the letter. Even if its going with the
pre-orders it would be hard to prove that you're NOT making any profit whatsoever on the shirts. Regardless, LOA could actually sue the company that
made the shirts, as they were party to a copyright violation and THEY actually made profit from manufacturing the shirts. And then it gets real messy.
These kind of intellectual property cases are dealt with all the time. I deal with them at my job when it comes to replication etc. I have a ton of
fucking paperwork around my office just to cover my ass for that kind of thing. I'm sure you'll have a ton of it just for licensing songs for your
compilation. It's a legal necessity.
Without these laws DefStar Steve could start making tons of money making his own Iron Maiden shirts, I could make tons of money manufacturing Kelly
Clarkson CDs, and everything would be a fuckin free for all. Sure, a lot of people don't bother to fight these battles, and that's cool. But we really
can't complain when someone DOES fight, because they're well within their rights.
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MyOwnWay
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Gary.
Having read your responce. That was well said. I agree with you completely.
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Muttley
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MyOwnWay
Gary.
Having read your responce. That was well said. I agree with you completely. |
Glad you see my point of view. It's an interesting topic and I'm actually surprised things like that don't happen much more often. After reading
DefStarSteve's post, it partly explains why.
I called you last week, you get my message? Wanna know how things are goin with this comp.
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BDx13
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| Quote: | Originally posted by defstarsteve
a parody of an original piece of art is allowed as long as the parody is altered over 10% from the original |
we used to do this all the time when i worked at capital skateboards (which was also nicotine wheel company / big east / silverstar / intensity skates
/ so on and so on). we had cease and desist letters framed around the office.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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defstarsteve
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the skateboard industry is just a bunch of rip-off artists anymore
there is a new company called cease and desist...
all they produce are limited edition ripp off's of famous graphics on new crappy decks
then sell out of the designs before the c&d letters can arrive...
I think it's cheap and not creative in the slightest to steal another persons work and put your name on it.
even if you did change it up 10%...
I think the NSK danzig shirt was okay as it was a parody (thanks weird al) but the slapshot one was a little too close
it just seems noone has an original thought anymore
I appreciate the laws as an artist....and as a printer, like I have said before I wont print bootlegs for anyone
I sure as hell don't want some dipshit from the midwest or amywhere stealing the hard work I have not only busted my ass over, but invested my life
into creating and just putting thier name on it.
they should sue the band, the label, the graphic artist and the printer, and then write a reccord half as good as river runs red
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BDx13
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the knockoffs we did back in the early 90s were of major corporations - starbucks and marlboro come to mind - and i have no problem with that. if we
could gain a little recognition cause some kid thinks it's funny we printed a sticker with our name slapped on "the man's" logo, then fine. fuck 'em.
If I fail math, there goes my chance at a good job and a happy life full of hard work.
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JUICE MAYNE MSHC
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I completely understand that is within LOA's right to send the cease and desist letter but I always look at rip off shirts (at least in the hardcore
or metal scenes) as kind of being a tribute to the ripped off band. Knowing the Under One Flag dudes myself I would say that was probably the intent.
My band Clenched Fist has been doing an AF rip off shirt for almost 10 years and it's still our best selling shirt. AF had no problem with it
because they understood it was us paying tribute. My brother's band Fight Like Hell did some shirts with Corrosion Of Conformity skull on them (which
DefStar printed) because my brother is a huge COC fan. Some others I can think of are Unearth using Boston's album cover, Terror doing Merauder &
WarZone rips off, Donnybrook doing a WarZone rip off, and there are seveal other AF rip offs. I don't think in any of these cases the intention was
to take another band's design and claim it as their own. It's all tribute. I know that doesn't make it illegal, I'm just saying.
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ENDERA.x
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To what Juice here said. The eyes of hardcore look at it differently I think. Then the eyes of metal-other genres of music, etc.
I think. ... IMO.
And on that note lol the Merauder design, which Terror copied, is actually the Ionsdale logo.
Interesting 
and yeah I see warzone, af - other early hardcore bands logos used all the time for new bands. and it gets my attention when i see it. i just never
thought too much of it really, other than it was kinda lame... lol. but doesnt bother me to see it really.
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Six66Mike
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I think the North Side Kings/Danzig rip was excellent because of the context & reason for doing it in the first place. I wanna see pics of these
other rips though.
A lot of people ask me what kind of music I like. I love "soul music". My "soul music" isn’t a style, genre or niche. It’s music that is genuine. It’s
a painful lyric, a dirty bassline, it’s a harrowing vocal, it’s feedback, it’s an anthem, it’s a love song, it’s anarchy. I’ve got my personal
favourites but in the end it doesn’t matter who or where it comes from... so long as it’s good and it's real.
- Paul Morris, music director at 97.7 HTZ-FM
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