If you're not following what's happening in Wisconsin, you should be

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 12:40 AM

I don't have a strong opinion on unions one way or the other and I'm not a tin hat kinda guy, but the repercussions of what's happening in Wisconsin could be devastating.

Wisconsin protests continue against 'union bashing'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/18/wisconsin-union-...

Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/wisconsin-gov-wal...

The Conservative Class War, Continued
http://www.thenation.com/article/158283/conservative-class-w...

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 12:43 AM

“The worst possible outlook is indifference that says, ‘I can’t do anything about it; I’ll just get by,’”
http://www.thenation.com/article/158684/outrage-deficit

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 12:55 AM

The other part of the Scott Walker plan: Firesale of Wisconsin state assets

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/21/947954/-The-other-p...

Jason the Magnificent - 2-22-2011 at 07:14 AM

I can't imagine raising kids in this country. Has to be terrifying how much of a free fall we're in.

Mark Lind - 2-22-2011 at 10:19 AM

I was just reading up on this.

My favorite bit is how the right tries to focus on one really absurd detail and make that their rallying cry. "They're making the tax payers fund a benefit for erectile dysfunction pills!". Yeah.... well, they are entitled to health benefits even though they're public employees and most health plans pay for those sorts of things. The tax payers aren't just funding boners like they're trying to suggest. It's almost implied that they're funding the boners that the unions want to fuck everyone with. :lol:

Colin - 2-22-2011 at 11:09 AM

trying to read up on this....been focusing too much on Libya. Shit is goin' down, worldwide

Johnny_Whistle - 2-22-2011 at 11:41 AM

Walker took office with a budget surplus, and deliberately gave that money away to special interests in order to try and force this union-busting measure through. What a tool.

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Johnny_Whistle
Walker took office with a budget surplus, and deliberately gave that money away to special interests in order to try and force this union-busting measure through. What a tool.

Exactly. From the second article linked above:

Quote:

In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state's budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.
To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.

clevohardcore - 2-22-2011 at 01:34 PM

Look the bad part is that they can divide the country by making the poor hate those unions simply by saying look at these greedy union workers. They get all the benefits and health care and discounts and you simple non union people get shafted because you only make $10 an hour and are scrapping to get by. It sucks all the way around. I hate that the unions are saying no to the BUT THAT IS OK TO RAISE THERE HEALTH CARE RATES AND PREMIUMS. THAT FUCKS ALL OF US! Just because they can afford the coverage and they get much better pay. It fucks the non union guy even more. It is shitty no matter how you look at it. I would like to support the Union man, but I am not union and I get nothing, but higher costs either way. Fuck them all.

Side note, I speculate "the man" has planned this shit out to a T. It is orchestrated. Corny, but how do you destroy a unified good of workers? By making everyone envy/hate them.

Colin - 2-22-2011 at 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
I speculate "the man" has planned this shit out to a T.

clevohardcore - 2-22-2011 at 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blackout Colin

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
I speculate "the man" has planned this shit out to a T.

I know it sounds corny, but it is playing out all too well for the powers that be. Much more than ever before. Think early 80's when Regan broke down the air traffic controllers union throughout the US. My father in law still doesn't understand what happened. He thought he was doing the right thing.

Now magnify that.

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 01:51 PM

I understand your point, Clevo, but the possible repercussions of the alternative are far worse.

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
I speculate "the man" has planned this shit out to a T.

Read this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/22/us/22koch.html?_r=2

BDx13 - 2-22-2011 at 01:54 PM

http://thephoenix.com/BLOGS/onthedownload/archive/2011/02/22...

http://dyingscene.com/news/video-tim-mcilrath-rise-against-p...

Discipline - 2-22-2011 at 01:59 PM

I think unions were a great thing when they first started way back when. Workers were treated like shit, and the unions gave them a voice, as well as finally getting fair conditions for the working man. That being said, I think some unions have gotten way too greedy. Paying off union benefits damn near bankrupted GM. There comes a point where it has to be capped. When I hear somebody working on an assembly line complain about only making $30+ an hour I get pissed off. How much money can these people, (auto industry more than anybody) complain about making such a great living, expect to make? It's a job damn near anybody can do, you don't need to go to college, or do an apprenticeship, or any formal training. At least plumbers, electricians, construction workers, etc, have to train and learn their trade. I have more sympathy for those unions, because you have to bust ass before you can join.

clevohardcore - 2-22-2011 at 02:16 PM

You fix everything by forcing 60 year olds off the assembly line and make room for the younger generations. Most everyone from 22 to 40 are having a terrible time finding gainful full-filling employment because of those older who didn't manage money correctly or made terrible mistakes with it.

I also have one other surefire simple solution to this devastating issue. I ain't going to get into it, because it could piss some of you off without a book being written by me explaining it. I do not have the time right now to explain it though, but boy it would fix our country immediately.

Jason the Magnificent - 2-22-2011 at 02:25 PM

The problem with the inevitable dismantling these public sector unions (I'd argue their worth vs. trade unions as discipline did) is that it sets a precedent. Once they take away their bargaining right there's no stopping the hammer.

I don't believe for a minute that our government has our best interests at heart, so when the first palm gets greased by someone in the private sector to start looking into trade unions, who do you think falls next?

Then there's no prevailing wages anywhere and the top .5% will hold the wealth instead of the top 1% and pretty soon everyones children will be in battles to the death thunderdome style over greeter positions at Walmart and Target.

clevohardcore - 2-22-2011 at 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BD
http://thephoenix.com/BLOGS/onthedownload/archive/2011/02/22...

http://dyingscene.com/news/video-tim-mcilrath-rise-against-p...

^^^^^^^^ Look you place DKM near anything and I listen. That being said if you watch the RISE AGAINST dude singing Neil Young. There is a girl at 1:20 in the background of the front audience as the camera pans and the girls sign reads "SCREW US, AND WE MULTIPLY"

clevohardcore - 2-22-2011 at 02:32 PM

I agree totally. The Union needs our support. No doubt. Also we need them to survive. I want to be in a Union. I want to be one of them receiving benefits that they do. I need that for my family. I am tired of struggling and scrapping by. I am still in school part time and up to my eyeballs in debt. I am working full-time at hospital and part-time and Police Department because I can't get in full time at the PD. The old guys don't want to retire. It fucks me over bad.

Jason the Magnificent - 2-23-2011 at 05:57 PM

http://front.moveon.org/gov-walker-reveals-entire-union-bust...

BDx13 - 2-23-2011 at 06:14 PM

i've read some of the highlights, but don't think i'll be able to listen to the actual call.

Quote:

WALKER: An interesting idea that was brought up to me by my chief of staff, we won’t do it until tomorrow, is putting out an appeal to the Democratic leader. I would be willing to sit down and talk to him, the assembly Democrat leader, plus the other two Republican leaders—talk, not negotiate and listen to what they have to say if they will in turn—but I’ll only do it if all 14 of them will come back and sit down in the state assembly. They can recess it… the reason for that, we’re verifying it this afternoon, legally, we believe, once they’ve gone into session, they don’t physically have to be there. If they’re actually in session for that day, and they take a recess, the 19 Senate Republicans could then go into action and they’d have quorum because it’s turned out that way. So we’re double checking that. If you heard I was going to talk to them that’s the only reason why. We’d only do it if they came back to the capitol with all 14 of them. My sense is, hell. I’ll talk. If they want to yell at me for an hour, I’m used to that. I can deal with that. But I’m not negotiating.

clevohardcore - 2-24-2011 at 12:41 AM

I just listened to the highlights on youtube. That phone call should sink them and their stance against the unions. It would anyone else, but it wont. I listen to conservative talk radio several times during the day and these lackeys are lobbying hard for those also listening. It's always the same type of sap/ rhetoric calling in. "Unions are destroying this country."

We have a big protest going on in Columbus this week. They are trying to bust up teachers unions. It's fucking crazy. On the radio the talk show hosts are getting ignorant bastards angry by playing supposed news reports of how "kids can't read" and the "Public school teachers are failing our children. We need accountability." What are you going to do? Make teachers get paid based on merit? FUCK YOU! That system would fall apart. No one would teach and no one would get into that line of work. You can't correct bad parenting by teaching 40 hours a week to 30 kids at a time. To kids that have no positive motivation or structure in the home. You can try to make an impression but you can't hold a teacher accountable for 100 plus students a day and making sure they get at least a C average.

Same with Police. They had a huge discussion on paying Officers based on merit and not by Union negotiations. That will open the floodgates of false arrests, excessive force and the smart officers would quit. The assholes and shady fuckers would stay. Can you imagine Police getting commission for merit? Everyone would get tickets for 5 miles over the speed limit, arrested or fined for every single bullshit excuse, not to mention the powers that be would only promote those they like verses those that deserve.

I don't think Unions are perfect, but they work best for our country. WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON IN AMERICA?

morgan - 2-24-2011 at 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Discipline
I think unions were a great thing when they first started way back when. Workers were treated like shit, and the unions gave them a voice, as well as finally getting fair conditions for the working man. That being said, I think some unions have gotten way too greedy. Paying off union benefits damn near bankrupted GM. There comes a point where it has to be capped. When I hear somebody working on an assembly line complain about only making $30+ an hour I get pissed off. How much money can these people, (auto industry more than anybody) complain about making such a great living, expect to make? It's a job damn near anybody can do, you don't need to go to college, or do an apprenticeship, or any formal training. At least plumbers, electricians, construction workers, etc, have to train and learn their trade. I have more sympathy for those unions, because you have to bust ass before you can join.

Pretty much my thoughts on unions. Really haven't followed what's been going on in Wisconsin enough to have a legitimate opinion on it.

BDx13 - 2-24-2011 at 05:39 PM

the reason why the republicans want to break up the unions is because they are the single largest organization that (typically) supports the democratic party.

it would be like the republicans not being able to rally church goers.

think about that for a minute.

DaveMoral - 2-24-2011 at 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by BD
the reason why the republicans want to break up the unions is because they are the single largest organization that (typically) supports the democratic party.

it would be like the republicans not being able to rally church goers.

think about that for a minute.

More to the point, it'd be like the Republicans not being able to accept donations from the Koch brothers.

Here's the real kick in the nuts. The Reps are trying to bust the unions, meanwhile they just managed to put through the Supreme Court a ruling that they can get an infinite amount of donation money from corporate interests because corporations are "people" with all the rights afforded to actual individuals. So you've got individuals that make up the body of a corporation's board who can donate to a candidate, and then as a corporate entity with all their business buddies they can do the same. And corporate interests are the shoveling cash to the guys that are willing to give them a world without regulations.

The public sector unions are the largest unions right now. The trade unions have been in decline for sometime now. They are practically broken. And frankly, the idea that the UAW was the biggest reason for GM's near bankruptcy is bullshit. GM went downhill because GM can come up with a viable idea and competitive products to save their company. The UAW has been compromising on their benefits packages for years. If the public sector unions get busted, especially with this idea that they aren't representing the working people of this country, then the trade unions follow swiftly. Without the unions there's really no stopping these corporate entities from dropping wages and benefits to record lows. And the working man gets screwed in the bargain because they've been conditioned to believe the union fucked them over, not the company, and now he's got to accept a drop in pay and benefits to bring the jobs back from India and China. And they'll use some xenophobia bullshit to do it too.

At the end of the day we all get screwed if the unions get busted. Hell, the teacher's union gets busted you're going to have an awful lot of disgruntled teachers out there and your kids get screwed. Nevermind that the fucking Repubs want to cut education, head start etc budgets anyway. Perpetually.

And they've somehow managed to hornswaggle the middle American blue collars into thinking they are the Party of the common man. How fucking stupid are we?

Colin - 2-25-2011 at 10:01 AM

Quote:

they also secretly (& sometimes openly) hate black people. Seriously. there might be 5% of republicans that aren't deep seeded racists. Just sayin' it.....

Jason the Magnificent - 2-25-2011 at 10:55 AM

That's some tin foil hat shit there and impossible to substantiate. That could just be easily said about democrats.

BDx13 - 2-25-2011 at 12:56 PM

^ which bit?

Jason the Magnificent - 2-25-2011 at 01:05 PM

About 95% republicans hating blacks. I'm no fan of the republican party but blanket statements like that don't do any good to help anyone. Both parties could care less about any color but green.

Colin - 2-25-2011 at 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jason the Magnificent
About 95% republicans hating blacks. I'm no fan of the republican party but blanket statements like that don't do any good to help anyone. Both parties could care less about any color but green.

you can put my last comment in the drunken posting file....although around the southwest here they sure aren't too fond of Mexicans or anyone else who can't speak english very well, legal or illegal. & I was surprised on how many Republicans I met that did make comments about Obama's race during & after the election, but at the same time there were more people I know who voted for him just because he's half black.

BDx13 - 2-28-2011 at 10:34 AM

Top 10 Disastrous Policies From The Wisconsin GOP You Haven’t Heard About

Walker’s assault on public employees is only one part of a larger political program that aims to give corporations free reign in the state while dismantling the healthcare programs, environmental regulations, and good government laws that protect Wisconsin’s middle and working class. These lesser known proposals in the 144-page bill reveal how radical Walker’s plan actually is:

http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/26/report-top-10-disastrous...

Wisconsin voters express buyer’s remorse over Gov. Scott Walker

BDx13 - 3-1-2011 at 05:30 PM

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110301/el_yblog_th...

Two months into his first term, a new poll shows Wisconsin voters are unhappy with GOP Gov. Scott Walker--and would send him packing if they were given a do-over of the 2010 election that sent him to the statehouse in Madison.

Amid the firestorm Walker touched off in going after the state's public-sector unions, voters indicated to Public Policy Polling (PDF) that Walker would lose a rematch with his Democratic opponent, Milwaukee mayor Tom Barrett, if the election were held today. Fifty-two percent of respondents said that today they would vote for Barrett and 45 percent said they would vote for Walker. Walker's job approval/disapproval was also 46 to 52 percent in the poll. PPP is considered to be a Democratic-allied firm

Those numbers are a complete reversal of November's election. Back then, Walker received 52 percent and Barrett received 46 percent of the vote.

The Wisconsin state capitol has been in disarray since Walker proposed ending collective bargaining for most state workers. Walker's bill has sparked enormous protests and prompted 14 Democratic state senators to flee the capitol to avoid advancing the measure in the state legislature.

Walker proposed ending collective bargaining as one way to help balance the state's budget and repair a $3.6 billion budget deficit. The governor and his allies argue that Walker is simply fulfilling his campaign promise to repair the state's fiscal situation.

Walker says he's actually working to preserve jobs for state workers. By ending collective bargaining and forcing state workers to contribute 5.8 percent of their salaries toward pensions and doubling their health insurance contribution, his administration would save 1,500 jobs between now and July, Walker says.

But critics say Walker's simply embarked on a union-busting power grab. President Obama earlier this month said Walker's proposal "seems like more of an assault on unions."

Regardless of how his program is playing in the court of public opinion, Walker has shown no signs of backing down. He issued a threat to Senate Democrats yesterday, saying that if the 14 state Senators do not return to the capitol Tuesday to vote on the bill, the state will lose out on $165 million in bond refinancing. Walker is scheduled to make a public address upon the 5 p.m. EST deadline for the lawmakers' return.

Six66Mike - 3-1-2011 at 08:37 PM

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23452

barc0debaby - 3-3-2011 at 01:02 PM

clevohardcore - 3-3-2011 at 05:11 PM

Ohio just past their version of it. Effective yesterday. Everyone is up in arms right now. Senate Bill 5. IT made it through by one vote.

BDx13 - 3-6-2011 at 12:41 PM

http://filterednews.wordpress.com/2011/03/05/20-lies-and-cou...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/03/06/953112/-Why-its-oka...

Six66Mike - 3-10-2011 at 08:38 PM

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2011/03/10/wisconsin-prot...

Passed

DaveMoral - 3-11-2011 at 11:33 AM

Funny that they pretended for so long that collective bargaining had to be ended for the sake of the budget, but when it became obvious they were never going to get it through that way the just stripped the bill of fiscal language therefore no longer necessitating a quorum and passed the union busting bill.

Six66Mike - 3-11-2011 at 09:47 PM

Michigan is next.

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/11/michigan-republicans.ht...

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:37 PM

just as the middle east is pulling itself out of the dark ages, were digging ourselves back in

anybody who votes for any republicans at this point who isnt an oil tycoon or something is absolutely crazy

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
You fix everything by forcing 60 year olds off the assembly line and make room for the younger generations. Most everyone from 22 to 40 are having a terrible time finding gainful full-filling employment because of those older who didn't manage money correctly or made terrible mistakes with it.

i propose national punch the fuck out of a baby boomer day as a national holiday

everything thats wrong with this country pretty much starts there honestly, from social problems all the way down

.....and they have just fucked the bo jangles out of our generation in every which way imaginable....so why would it be any surprise that their business practices be any different?

ive been thinking about that for years every time i pay into social security

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:44 PM

Quote:

they hate Latinos too

its a major driving force behind all the shit they are able to get away with (especially with older voters)

want proof?

come spend a weekend down here with me, and spend 20 minutes talking to my crackerfuck republican neighbors

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by barc0debaby

a tremendous amount of blame here belongs on the fucking supreme court of the united states

they made a disastrous decision in regards to how corporations are viewed in their funding of things of a political nature

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by clevohardcore
Ohio just past their version of it. Effective yesterday. Everyone is up in arms right now. Senate Bill 5. IT made it through by one vote.

the recall effort is your only hope

grab a clipboard man!!

spyderdog - 3-12-2011 at 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DaveMoral
Funny that they pretended for so long that collective bargaining had to be ended for the sake of the budget, but when it became obvious they were never going to get it through that way the just stripped the bill of fiscal language therefore no longer necessitating a quorum and passed the union busting bill.

this country will never get better until all the "conservatives" are out

DaveMoral - 3-12-2011 at 07:19 PM

My big problem with Boomers... they bought that Reagan shit hook line and sinker. Hell, Obama is a fucking Reaganite.

Not for nothing, Reaganism(or Thatcherism for youse across the pond) has been referred to as "friendly fascism."

BDx13 - 3-13-2011 at 02:29 AM

SAY IT AIN'T SO, RONNIE!!

"Where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost ..."
- Ronald Reagan, Labor Day speech, 1980

spyderdog - 3-13-2011 at 09:12 AM

that shit better wind up in some ads in 2012

thats a fucking slowball that even the democratic party can limp wristedly hit

Six66Mike - 3-15-2011 at 07:33 AM

Steven King

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1vW1zPmnKQ

state of mind - 3-18-2011 at 02:10 AM

Taking away collective bargaining should be a crime if I had the money I would be down in Wisconsin showing my support (I did hit up a rally in NY). Those people earned the package they have. Let this go on and it will spread like a cancer. Union workers keep wages up, this also helps non union workers too.
If you lower the rate of a union worker non union will go lower to compete. Then every one is making less.

Union work also helps your local economy, I see it all the time in construction. Out of town non union workers build take the money and leave. Instead you can pay local union workers a little more to build or do whatever and they will spend the money in there local community (groceries, gas, rent, and so on).
For some of these fat cats there is never enough food on the table for them.
Support your local unions, shop union, don't use self check out, deposit your money with a bank teller not a machine. People need to work and protect each others jobs. I have no problem waiting on a line if it keeps you employed.

and another thing not every one is going out of business and poor like it seems. Every were you look its pay cuts, employee cuts, pension cuts, and stuff like that. What a load of crap, its just a excuse that works. What it really is more for less. They keep pushing and pushing.

BDx13 - 4-5-2011 at 12:19 AM

this is almost comical...

Scott Walker Gives $81,500 Government Job To Top Donor’s 26-Year-Old College Dropout Son
http://thinkprogress.org/2011/04/04/scott-walker-hires-dropo...

Six66Mike - 4-5-2011 at 11:58 PM

Almost makes you want to pack up and leave eh?