Hardcore music today

Discipline - 12-5-2005 at 02:55 PM

Is it just me, or are there way too many bands out there these days. It seems there's a hundred new bands coming out every week. Too many labels now too. I understand the need for labels to a point, but remember when not every fucking band was on label? They would just put their own shit out. Now bands all seem to be on a label within a couple of months, with no real experience behind them

I rarely buy new music these days. I'm usually buying older shit I like that I didn't have, or I'm replacing old tapes/vinyl. I don't know how people keep up with all the new shit. I see so many shows listed these days that don't have even one band I know or have at least heard of. When I was younger I went to shows all the time but these days I really only go if it's a band(s) I really like. Is this cause I'm getting old or because there's too many shitty bands out there. I really can't stand the hardcore "scene" much these days. Too much fashion, too much bullshit, too many trends, not enough good music. I know this has been discussed on here before but it really seems to be bugging me these days. I saw an ad for punk dolls called "scensters" or something in a magazine the other day and it made me want to puke. Kids wonder why the older people aren't getting into the new style, they ought to take a look at what they think hardcore really is. Kids really need to check out the older bands and learn from it. I laughed recently at an Agnostic Front show when I heard a kid call bands like Death Threat and Hatebreed "old School hardcore." This kid was bragging about being into the old school hardcore but was talking about these bands. What the fuck?????!?????

Also, what the fuck are "scene points?"

I'm going to end this rant with the lyrics of a song I've been listening to a lot lately, "Is This How A Punk Song Goes?" by the Dayglo Abortions. It makes me laugh because it's so true. To me, these guys are the definition of punk rock.

Is this how a punk song goes?
I'm asking you, like you should know
Cause I don't wanna blow another 20 years playing guitar
when I shoulda been modeling running shoes
Instead of bitching about big brother
I could've been selling you a brand new pair of Nikes
But I think I must have missed something cuz I don't know
what running shoes have to do with punk rock anyway

Is this how a punk song goes
I'm asking you cuz I'm dying to know

I guess it's no big deal I've been doing it this way
for 40 days and 40 nights
and rock and roll is a lot like sex
It's still a lot of fun even if your're not doing it right
Even though I'm not great at it, I sure get a lot of it
So I guess I'll stop complaining , crack a beer
and light a joint cuz I got a fucking gig tonight

Is this how a punk song goes
I'm asking you cause I'm dying to know

XHonusWagnerX - 12-5-2005 at 03:09 PM

I completly agree. Is it really fair to say your band is on a lable just becuase your friend that cant play an instrument took the money he would have spent on a guitar and put out your bands record insted? I mean any one with $500 to press a 7" can have a "record lable", but it takes alot more to make something that matters!

I dont really like many 'new' bands at all. Even the new bands that I do like have members of older bands in them IE: Ramallah, allthough I wouldnt consider BFB an old school hardcore band either. They are just older than most of the others around now.

I totally miss the days of afternoon matinee shows at Club Baby Head or the Channel or the Rat. How many of todays "Hardcore Kids" remember that The Palladium used to be called E.M. Lowes and they would have "Cringe Productions Presets..." shows there every few weeks. Slapshot, Murphys Law, Sam Black Church, Maelstrom, The Bosstons (before the Warped tour), Agnostic front, F.O.E., Endless, Dive, Arise, Said and Done, Biohazard (before Onyx and Cypress Hill) etc etc etc...

and thats just MY old school as a 31 year old... I never got to see Negative FX or DYS or Black Flag or Minor Threat so maybe Im not old school either... all I know is that DEATH THREAT and all the other more current bands are not old school! I dont care if people liek them or not (like I said I dont care for many newer bands), but dont go spouting off that your old school becauyse you had the H2O 'GO' record before the Hazen street record came out! Fucking Asshole kids.... god damn it I hate people!

Voodoobillyman - 12-5-2005 at 05:28 PM

I totally remember the Cringe days Honus!!!!!! wow you brought back some fond memories right there with Maelstrom and SBC, old tones and Slapshot, TAANG bands of yesteryears. Did you ever make it up to Maine for any old Zootz shows, thats where I saw most of my "old school" stuff. By the way I'm 30 and grew up in Portland.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-5-2005 at 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Did you ever make it up to Maine for any old Zootz shows, thats where I saw most of my "old school" stuff. By the way I'm 30 and grew up in Portland.

No unfortuantly I never really ventured much further than Boston or New Bedford (which seemed so far back then) for shows.

Some hilights I remember...

Raw Deal & The Icemen @ The Edge which was the place behind the Channel.

Biohazard & the Exploited @ Club Baby Head

H2O @ The Rat

Bane @ the Church in Harvard Square

Gorilal Biscuits @ Club Baby Head

DropDead (First Show Ever!) @ the RISD Tap Room

Insted @ Club Baby Head

Token Entry & The Bosstones (First Tour Ever!) @ Club Baby Head

D.R.I. @ The OLD Living Room

The Ramones @ The OLD Living Room

Circle Jerks @ The OLD Living Room

Primus @ Club Baby Head

Kreator & Biohazard @ Club Baby Head

Public Image Limited @ The Providence Performing Arts Center

wow... sorry I just went on a little rant and rattled on and on! SO many good shows back in the day and I bet there were less than a handfull of fights at all those shows combined.

JawnDiablo - 12-5-2005 at 05:49 PM

i was in the troc here in philly for a show in the balcony last night. a friend of a friends band was playin. i was thinkin about all the shows ive seen in there over the years....scary

BDx13 - 12-5-2005 at 08:10 PM

somewhere i have a bunch of tickets stubs from shows at the troc. but you're right... SO many shows there.

KyleOz - 12-5-2005 at 08:17 PM

I am going to send you all a bunch of canes.

old fogeys haha

Discipline - 12-6-2005 at 02:20 AM

I earned my cane with too many nights of dancing in the pit.

Dancing to good bands that didn't wear girlpants.

thedog - 12-6-2005 at 04:07 AM

the troc use to get lots of cool shows, not so much anymore.

Voodoobillyman - 12-6-2005 at 11:12 AM

My philosophy is "Honky Tonk is the new hardcore"

newbreedbrian - 12-6-2005 at 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
My philosophy is "Honky Tonk is the OLD hardcore"

MyOwnWay - 12-6-2005 at 08:39 PM

I may be alone in this, but I dig some of the new Hardcore thats come out in recent years. Quick examples: Slumlords, Allegiance, Billyclub Sandwich, Dominican Day Parade, and My Turn To Win.

I think things are getting better as I see a resurgence of the good shit. Alot of the bands that are here now, wont be around in a couple years. Simply because most of them are in it for the wrong reasons (impressing their friends, etc..). But there are a lot of good bands playing good music for all the right reasons and trying to keep things moving.

I think alot should be credited to the reunions too. I love how so many "older" bands are hitting up on reunions and basicaly showing these younger cats how its done. Its a family, and its fun. It might not be so much anymore, but I used to really feel connected if I'm walking somewhere and I see someone with a Hardcore shirt on. Or tatts all over his/her body. I still feel connected. I still love Hardcore. Without a doubt.

tireironsaint - 12-6-2005 at 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MyOwnWay
I may be alone in this, but I dig some of the new Hardcore thats come out in recent years. Quick examples: Slumlords, Allegiance, Billyclub Sandwich, Dominican Day Parade, and My Turn To Win.

I think things are getting better as I see a resurgence of the good shit. Alot of the bands that are here now, wont be around in a couple years. Simply because most of them are in it for the wrong reasons (impressing their friends, etc..). But there are a lot of good bands playing good music for all the right reasons and trying to keep things moving.

I think alot should be credited to the reunions too. I love how so many "older" bands are hitting up on reunions and basicaly showing these younger cats how its done. Its a family, and its fun. It might not be so much anymore, but I used to really feel connected if I'm walking somewhere and I see someone with a Hardcore shirt on. Or tatts all over his/her body. I still feel connected. I still love Hardcore. Without a doubt.

I understand what you mean about those bands, well...Slumlords anyway, I haven't really checked out any of the others. BUT, I don't think those are the types of bands everybody is referring to. What little I do know about the rest of the bands you mentioned is that they seem to be made up of people who have been around forever and still have the spirit of what Hard Core once was as opposed to the 24th generation rehashes and rip offs who don't even understand the roots of the scene they claim to live and die for. I've avoided posting in this thread because this is a topic that pisses me off greatly. I fucking LOATHE the new "hardcore" scene, bands and kids alike. There are a very very few bands that pop up from time to time who are actually decent or (rarely) great, but there is so much bullshit with absolutely no relation to what this thing started as and it fuckin' bites my ass to even try to talk to these people about it.

GOLD GRILL - 12-7-2005 at 12:51 AM

You know, I hate to piss on the old fart parade, but get over that shit. There's lots of shitty bands now, there were lots of shitty bands then. As far as hardcore today, there are gay trends, but they'll die out. There are also a shitload of awesome bands coming out now; if you can't find them then you aren't looking hard enough. Don't get me wrong, hardcore has a changed a bunch just since I've been involved. But I didn't sit in my room listening to old lp's when in control or hoods or terror came to town. I went to those shows, and I'm happy I still go to shows and buy records and support new shit. There are lots a fake fucks. Fuck the kids, love the music.

clevohardcore - 12-7-2005 at 01:02 AM

Kill your idols, wisdom in chains, most precious blood, subzero all good new shit.

GOLD GRILL - 12-7-2005 at 01:07 AM

pretty much the entire spook city lineup. Donnybrook, blacklisted, Ramallah, Your Mistake, Clenched Fist, just to name a few.

tireironsaint - 12-7-2005 at 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GOLD GRILL
You know, I hate to piss on the old fart parade, but get over that shit. There's lots of shitty bands now, there were lots of shitty bands then. As far as hardcore today, there are gay trends, but they'll die out. There are also a shitload of awesome bands coming out now; if you can't find them then you aren't looking hard enough. Don't get me wrong, hardcore has a changed a bunch just since I've been involved. But I didn't sit in my room listening to old lp's when in control or hoods or terror came to town. I went to those shows, and I'm happy I still go to shows and buy records and support new shit. There are lots a fake fucks. Fuck the kids, love the music.

Sorry man, I think the so called "scene" today is a fuckin' joke. A bunch of whiny emo assholes who think they are old school because they bought the first AFI album when it came out on repress the first time. Then you've got the tough guys who wanna fight you to prove that they're all about HAWD COWUH. Or how about the new youth crew that is all about dressing in authentic 1988 era jockwear to show how far up Ray and Porcell's asses they are? Do I really need to keep going here? The list is endless and the few bands that are actually doing anything worthwhile are so few and far between it's a constant struggle to find out about them.

MyOwnWay - 12-7-2005 at 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tireironsaintThe list is endless and the few bands that are actually doing anything worthwhile are so few and far between it's a constant struggle to find out about them.

I do see what you are saying for the most part. When I first started getting into Hardcore, late 80s early ninties, I had to find out about bands that played shows around my way or from mix tapes I dubbed from friends. I still have songs from back then that I love and have no idea who sings them because it was dubbed from their mix tape. What I'm saying is, its for the most part always been a struggle to find good bands. Granted back then most bands I heard, I liked. Its not that way today. But I think because their are so many more bands, and so many "other" ways to hear bands and their music. You dont have to rely on mix tapes anymore. And I honestly see it as a good thing. Keep the faith, and if you want new music to check out, make a thread. I'm sure myself and most others would be happy to reccomend bands to you.

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 08:22 AM

. Or how about the new youth crew that is all about dressing in authentic 1988 era jockwear to show how far up Ray and Porcell's asses they are?............classic...

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 08:24 AM

i still buy cds
i still go to a few shows
are things as fun for me as they were 10 years ago? no not really
every once in a while something cool comes up or comes out
if i dont like it, i wont listen to it
still plenty of good new stuff
still plenty of bad old stuff
and why in hell was Shelter even remotley popular?
that shit was gayer than a bag of dicks...as i steal the quote from one of you guys

BDx13 - 12-7-2005 at 11:26 AM

With the increased popularity of aggressive music over the past ten or fifteen years, we've seen substantial growth in not only the number of bands in the scene, but also the number of related genres. If you made a family tree of aggressive music styles starting back in, say, 1980, you probably have three or four genres to start (uk punk, la hardcore, etc), growing to hundreds today (punk, pop punk, squatter punk, new york hardcore, youth crew, emo, screamo, metal core, black metal, etc, etc, etc.).

The fact of the matter is that there has always been a fair amount of overlap between these similarly-themed genres, its just that the breadth of today's musical options makes the scene as we remember it seem more diluted than ever. This is an especially difficult pill to swallow for those like me that have more specific tastes. I understand why the kids listen to some (not all, sorry dillinger) of the stuff they do, it's just that I don't care for it.

After having been in the scene for about 10 years, hardcore started to play a less important role in my life (it wasn't out by any means, it just wasn't the 100% it had been previously). I was pretty unenthuiastic about the current crop bands, so I spent more time engaging in other musical persuits. But within a year or two, bands (some already old favorites) like BL13, DKM, Clutch, and especially The Hope Conspiracy started to pull me back in (of course, working on Thorp helped, too). These days, I am just as enthuiastic about 'current' bands like Terror, Ramallah, Killing The Dream, Slumlords, Death Before Dishonor, Blood For Blood and First Blood as I was Killing Time, Token Entry, Judge, Turning Point, Uniform Choice, and Gorilla Biscuits back in the day. But ultimately, Gold Grill and The Saint are both right... there's a lot of crap (both music and trends) out there today, but there is still a lot of good music, and I do think it is still worth working to find. Frankly, I'd rather have to sift through a bunch a crap to find something good than to have there be no aggressive music at all.

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 12:19 PM

word

Jason the Magnificent - 12-7-2005 at 12:27 PM

Too Many labels giving too many crappy bands that no ones ever heard of untill the label starts hyping them a record deal. Hardly any band ever pays their dues anymore, because the market is flooded with labels who will jump at the chance to sign the next big thing before another label gets the chance.

So now you have a market saturated by sub-standard bands given opportunities to release a cd because everyone and their brother has a record label who wants to rack up a catalogue.

Too many bands, not enough fans.

Voodoobillyman - 12-7-2005 at 12:41 PM

Theres like this standard formula for the way the music is written for each genre Big D was talking about and theres 1000+ bands for each genre that conform to this formula and then come up with a "hip" look and catchy name and then claims they arent concerned with the "look" or trend of it all, but feed right into it. The good bands that are far and few between are the ones that try something new and dont stick to the formula or get involved in the "look". Alot of people think it has to do with the older guys from the "scene" keeping it pure and real. I think thats bullshit and a perfect example of this is Agnostic Fronts new album. They wrote a formula back in the day and have decided on this album to adopt a tired ass formula already beaten into the ground. So "old school" cred is nothing. It's about the music being written, theres no more passion in "hardcore" it's all posturing now. The good stuff stays hidden and hard to find because it dosent fit the "cool" formula, and I agree it's alot of fun to find those bands, the hunt, the discovery and the familiarization with it.

Voodoobillyman - 12-7-2005 at 12:42 PM

But again, opinions are like assholes...........we all got one.

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 12:55 PM

oh well...ive always kinda been on the outside lookin in as far as the "looks" were concerned

Discipline - 12-7-2005 at 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Theres like this standard formula for the way the music is written for each genre Big D was talking about and theres 1000+ bands for each genre that conform to this formula and then come up with a "hip" look and catchy name and then claims they arent concerned with the "look" or trend of it all, but feed right into it. The good bands that are far and few between are the ones that try something new and dont stick to the formula or get involved in the "look". Alot of people think it has to do with the older guys from the "scene" keeping it pure and real. I think thats bullshit and a perfect example of this is Agnostic Fronts new album. They wrote a formula back in the day and have decided on this album to adopt a tired ass formula already beaten into the ground. So "old school" cred is nothing. It's about the music being written, theres no more passion in "hardcore" it's all posturing now. The good stuff stays hidden and hard to find because it dosent fit the "cool" formula, and I agree it's alot of fun to find those bands, the hunt, the discovery and the familiarization with it.

The new AF is them bringing back a style they helped define back in the day. Listen to Liberty and Justice or One Voice and you'll see where the new one came from.

Voodoobillyman - 12-7-2005 at 05:36 PM

Quote:

The new AF is them bringing back a style they helped define back in the day. Listen to Liberty and Justice or One Voice and you'll see where the new one came from.

I'm sorry dude, I see where your going with this, but it's not the same in my opinion. Those albums were good and the new one isnt that bad for what it is, but I see them adopting way more of the Metalcore sound now, where as back in the day they may have had the standard hardcore sound with a bit of metal breakdown here and there, kind of like Sheer Terror. The new album is just pure headbangers Ball type shit.

Voodoobillyman - 12-7-2005 at 05:40 PM

hell they even had Jamey "I have my hands in everything now" Jasta co produce and sing on it. It's just a big change in the mundane direction, again, in my humble opinion.

Discipline - 12-7-2005 at 05:54 PM

To each their own as they say. I do understand where you're coming from as I've had this discussion with a few people. It's what I thought the first time I listened to the album. It grew on me from there. Roger's keeping the more oi influenced stuff he writes for the Disasters. I'll still take the new AF over most new bands.

I think Subzero were way more blatant in changing their sound to fit in with the metalcore crowd. But at least it ain't emo.

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 06:04 PM

i have always had a soft spot in my heart for AF, considering they were one of the first Hardcore bands i was into as a youngster. i think the new record is cool and all but it just doesnt feel like AF when you listen to it. it really does sound like a hatebreed thing. . but then again i really liked somethings gotta give and riot riot upstart. nothin tops victim in pain or live at cbgb, but then again i really dont want anything to top it either. i have respect for them for sticking to it . really wish i could have seen them back in the day.
things change
people change
i get older
and i dont get into too much new style stuff
yer right allot of it is too far removed form the original element
but hey
there are the slumlords
and thanks to hearing of em from you guys
that fuckin cd has been on mximum rotation for me since monday
great stuff
i understand whats going on on that cd

gavin - 12-7-2005 at 07:11 PM

i been listening to alot of nick cave
that dude is hardcore

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 07:16 PM

do you have The Birthday Party?
theres some nutty shit on that
i think i still have let love in and murder ballads here somewhere
they were using red right hand in movies for a while there

gavin - 12-7-2005 at 07:22 PM

yeah
some birthday party stuff rules while other stuff of theirs is not so hot
i love me some nick cave solo stuff
love that dude

tireironsaint - 12-7-2005 at 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Voodoobillyman
Alot of people think it has to do with the older guys from the "scene" keeping it pure and real. I think thats bullshit and a perfect example of this is Agnostic Fronts new album. They wrote a formula back in the day and have decided on this album to adopt a tired ass formula already beaten into the ground. So "old school" cred is nothing. It's about the music being written, theres no more passion in "hardcore" it's all posturing now. The good stuff stays hidden and hard to find because it dosent fit the "cool" formula, and I agree it's alot of fun to find those bands, the hunt, the discovery and the familiarization with it.

I definitely agree, the point I was trying to make by bringing up people who have been around was more that the ones I was talking about (mostly Slumlords) are keeping the feel of the old school while doing something different. As for Agnostic Front, I still love that band, but I will not be supporting them in their current role as Hatebreed Junior. Especially not when they should be Hatebreed's angry grampa beating their asses with a belt for fucking up the name of the family. All this has been said in another thread about that new AF album, but honestly, One Voice was their worst album by far.....until they decided to go back to that sound and made something even worse.

JawnDiablo - 12-7-2005 at 11:21 PM

Especially not when they should be Hatebreed's angry grampa beating their asses with a belt for fucking up the name of the family. ....
lines like this is why i keep coming back to the thorp boards
beautiful

tireironsaint - 12-7-2005 at 11:26 PM

Heh, thanks.

Discipline - 12-7-2005 at 11:52 PM

At least I'll always have Murphy's Law.

Voodoobillyman - 12-8-2005 at 09:06 AM

Quote:

Roger's keeping the more oi influenced stuff he writes for the Disasters

Discipline, I still have alot of respect for AF as do you, and I own the new album, just dont listen to it much. Thank God for the Disasters though, I love that band , seen em live twice and they dont get old, cant wait for some new stuff.

Discipline - 12-8-2005 at 03:43 PM

I like the Disasters quite a bit but I don't think I'd like them as much if Roger wasn't involved. It's the only reason I checked them out to begin with.

Voodoobillyman - 12-8-2005 at 04:33 PM

Quote:

I don't think I'd like them as much if Roger wasn't involved

Hell man, thats the only reason anyone checked em out I think. But it was worth it, and I really do like what they are doing quite a bit.

Discipline - 12-8-2005 at 07:09 PM

What I meant is if the band had come out with exact same songs with an equally good but unknown singer I'm not sure I'd like them as much. It's all about Roger.

clevohardcore - 12-8-2005 at 07:33 PM

I never heard the R M and the disasters.

Voodoobillyman - 12-9-2005 at 08:58 AM

Quote:

What I meant is if the band had come out with exact same songs with an equally good but unknown singer I'm not sure I'd like them as much. It's all about Roger.

I know it man, I was totally agreeing with you, it would not be the same if it wasnt Roger Miret. Thats the only reason I checked them out and the main reason I liked them. It was nice to see him going in that direction.

Jason the Magnificent - 12-9-2005 at 11:53 AM

Rogers vocals on that new AF are rediculous. Sounds like hes trying to sound like Rick to Life who was trying to sound like Roger...his vocals now are just a big caricature. I mean has anyone seen that pure video (i think its pure) seeing this old weathered dude gurbling out these bizarre sounding vocals...if I was some kid who had never heard the band and was watching this I would think its a joke band. Watching that was about as uncomfortable as when you were a little kid and a sex scene came on during a movie you were watching with your parents.
Not to mention the music is such a blatant ploy to turn a buck by sounding like ozzfest hardcore.

I mean AF has always adapted their music to the times...but most of the time, it was trendsetting...now theyre just trying to hop on a trend to stay afloat. Not that somthings gotta give was this great album...but at least if they would have left off with that they could have went out semi-gracefully...this new stuff is embarassing.

Discipline - 12-10-2005 at 01:35 AM

I wouldn't say it's their best album, but it's not THAT bad. It has some decent tunes, and it comes off pretty damn good live.

DisposableHero - 12-13-2005 at 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by XHonusWagnerX@ Club Baby Head.

Fuck dude! That takes me back so far it almost hurts. Baby Head was the shit. I now live in Asia and I'm thinking how the fuck did I get here.