Man Shot and Killed at Donnybrook Show

CR83 - 12-8-2005 at 11:36 AM

What the fuck kind of world are we living in?

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?...

Arizona Daily Star is reporting that one man died and several people were injured when a large fight broke out during a DONNYBROOK/SHATTERED REALM concert at a Tucson youth center Wednesday night (Dec. 7), police said. Also appearing on the bill were HOODS and BLACK MY HEART.

A man in his early 20s was shot to death around 9 p.m. during the concert at Skrappy's, a club for teens at 201 E. Broadway, police and witnesses said. [View photos of the scene outside Skrappy's: Photo#1, Photo#2.]

The man, whose name was not released pending family notification, was taken to a hospital where he was pronounced dead, said Sgt. Ramon Batista, a Tucson Police Department spokesman.

There were few details late Wednesday as Tucson police were interviewing dozens of witnesses and sorting out exactly who did the shooting, although they did not believe the shooter was on the loose, Batista said.

Batista could not release any information about the others who were injured in the fight, but said that there were other weapons involved aside from the gun used in the shooting.

DONNYBROOK's "Street Brutality Tour" with SHATTERED REALM, HOODS and BLACK MY HEART is scheduled to conclude Thursday (Dec. 8) with an appearance at The Club House in Las Vegas, Nevada

BDx13 - 12-8-2005 at 11:45 AM

i'm very sorry to hear this news. the tour is pretty much over, but i hope the bands get through ok.

CR83 - 12-8-2005 at 11:48 AM

I'll never understand shit like this.

Voodoobillyman - 12-8-2005 at 12:00 PM

What a waste, thats why I dont go to many shows anymore, too many posturing fuckin morons who think they have something to prove and "hardcore" shows are the place to do it, fuckin douchebags.

KyleOz - 12-8-2005 at 12:03 PM

Anything is going too far when somebody loses their life.

JawnDiablo - 12-8-2005 at 12:21 PM

morons

BDx13 - 12-8-2005 at 12:46 PM

More reading: http://lambgoat.com/news/view.aspx?id=5851

Ed - 12-8-2005 at 01:05 PM

This type of behavior really sickens me. The guy that has to carry a gun to a show as a means to extend his own penis is a true fucking coward. Shit like this has been happening now for years. When I was a young kid just starting to go to hardcore shows fights would happen, you would get smacked around, (not that often mind you) but you would take it, GET OVER IT and go on with your life intact. Now I feel somewhat disconnected with the scene and what some of it has become. Some people might get pissed at me for saying this but this rap culture attitude now running rampant in the scene I cant relate to at all. You can like rap music and if thats your thing fine but where I was from guns, street gangs, bling, gold teeth, crooked baseball caps and suburban white boys with there jeans hanging down way past there ass, had zero to do with hardcore. This is why I started listening to hardcore in the first place because I couldnt relate to these things. Again I will say this has nothing to do with people into these type of things, But why is this nonsense at hardcore shows? WHAT HAPPENED? Maybe i'm just getting old.

moron - 12-8-2005 at 01:13 PM

shitty

Discipline - 12-8-2005 at 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Ed
This type of behavior really sickens me. The guy that has to carry a gun to a show as a means to extend his own penis is a true fucking coward. Shit like this has been happening now for years. When I was a young kid just starting to go to hardcore shows fights would happen, you would get smacked around, (not that often mind you) but you would take it, GET OVER IT and go on with your life intact. Now I feel somewhat disconnected with the scene and what some of it has become. Some people might get pissed at me for saying this but this rap culture attitude now running rampant in the scene I cant relate to at all. You can like rap music and if thats your thing fine but where I was from guns, street gangs, bling, gold teeth, crooked baseball caps and suburban white boys with there jeans hanging down way past there ass, had zero to do with hardcore. This is why I started listening to hardcore in the first place because I couldnt relate to these things. Again I will say this has nothing to do with people into these type of things, But why is this nonsense at hardcore shows? WHAT HAPPENED? Maybe i'm just getting old.

Yer not getting old, I feel the same way as do many others I'm sure.

defstarsteve - 12-8-2005 at 01:41 PM

this sucks plain and simple but it's not the rap culture,

it's our culture as a whole

there is no respect left for anything, and everything is disposable, even life

and I think it comes from the generation before ours

the fucking self involved hippy pieces of shit...
george carlin had a great rant about how they fucked it up for their kids....

they were to worried about "me me me" to take care of their fucking kids,
to teach them any values, the same values that they rejected as kids, and now are running mad to try to impose them all at once as a value system for the country, and it's just ass backwards

and now here are the kids of these asswipes pulling guns at shows....

this experiment of a society is a failure...
I hope Iran gets the bomb so we as a species can just be wiped clean from the slate and start over...

JawnDiablo - 12-8-2005 at 01:51 PM

The guy that has to carry a gun to a show as a means to extend his own penis is a true fucking coward.

Some people might get pissed at me for saying this but this rap culture attitude now running rampant in the scene I cant relate to at all.

WHAT HAPPENED? Maybe i'm just getting old.

yup
thats what i was thinkin

Ed - 12-8-2005 at 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by defstarsteve
this sucks plain and simple but it's not the rap culture,

it's our culture as a whole

there is no respect left for anything, and everything is disposable, even life

and I think it comes from the generation before ours

the fucking self involved hippy pieces of shit...
george carlin had a great rant about how they fucked it up for their kids....

they were to worried about "me me me" to take care of their fucking kids,
to teach them any values, the same values that they rejected as kids, and now are running mad to try to impose them all at once as a value system for the country, and it's just ass backwards

and now here are the kids of these asswipes pulling guns at shows....

this experiment of a society is a failure...
I hope Iran gets the bomb so we as a species can just be wiped clean from the slate and start over...

Good point, I am sure there are many reasons that are leading to this sort of behavior. Also that Carlin rant you are talking about is great!

defstarsteve - 12-8-2005 at 02:09 PM

well as a whole what has our society become, sitcoms and fast food, cell phones and dvd's (not that I don't enjoy my comforts but we suck)

we have more and more shit but nothing of quality, and nothing seems to last for more then a few years...

there are structures in the middle east that were built thousands of years ago that are still standing today, thru every kind of natural disaster, but most homes built here within the last 50 years seem to be falling apart...

we have no sense of true value anymore and this is being instilled in the youth, nothing matters to them but the external, once something is used up they toss it aside with no remorse...

it's everywhere in our culture and it's going to be the end of it as well...

JawnDiablo - 12-8-2005 at 02:19 PM

we're doomed
time to give the earth back to the cock roaches

CR83 - 12-8-2005 at 03:28 PM

I can see both sides (Ed's and Def Star Steve's). Very good points. I'd like to add that there is such a need in our society for "Instant" and "Ultimate" gratification. Doing things the easiest way immediately and speed things up. Shit, make it easy. I'm not going to take the tough road and enjoy the reward. I'll bring a gun because I'm a tough guy. I can see how the "rap culture has influenced so many things. Majority of things seem to be about "Show". No value and all on the surface.

It's all bullshit and you are a pussy for shooting someone. I hope whoever did this fucking rots.

KyleOz - 12-8-2005 at 03:51 PM

Jesus Christ, reading those news comments on lambgoat. Pretty harsh.

defstarsteve - 12-8-2005 at 04:00 PM

I am not looking to start an arguement
I was just stating that the "rap culture" excuse for kids acting like idiots is only the frosting on the cake...

the problems are a lot more serious then some kids wanting to be like 50 cent

and lets look at the facts behind the rap culture....

who sells this culture...
white corporations, record labels and movie studios,

who buys it
the majority is suburban white kids

what are they selling,
an image being protrayed by idiots who act the toughtest, and talk the most shit, about things they have little if anything to do with.

This style of rap outsells other forms of rap at incedible rates

why is it so popular with suburban white kids

this goes back to their parents,
they have neglected these kids in pursuit of their own personal gains and left them with no guidance what so ever.

They abandon them as soon as they are born into daycare and school, while they rush around trying to pursue some kind of image of the perfect homelife, the best job, the best home, the best car.

it always has to be better, and they push these same ideals into their kids, but don't guide them to understand any of it, so the kids react like their parnets,

I need to be tougher, I need more, and then they are getting influeneced by these outside sources, (since the parents are not around to guide them) the media, music, movies and video games and they see the same paterns as in thier parents

I am the hardest rapper, I shot a 100 mother fuckas...
and I killed every mofo in that game....

blaming the media and rap is just a cop out in my opinon, it's all of our faults for letting it get like this.

we live in a negative culture that we have built and then we are pissed off when negative shit happens, and we look to the easy out instead of looking at what is truely wrong with the situation...

Voodoobillyman - 12-8-2005 at 04:26 PM

Your right Steve, but as a parent you are aware, I'm sure, that it's your responsibility to make the next generation a little better, by guiding your own children the right way. My wife and I are blessed with the option to keep her home to raise our daughter . I know it's a losing battle because inteligent, enlightened people are having less and less children while ignorant fucks breed left and right, but we can only do what we can do right? my philosophy is alot like yours, I have little to no love for the human race as a whole, but having a kid has opened my eyes to a whole new level of understanding in this shithole, and I now have a purpose to be around. It sounds cheesy but we can make a difference, nothing is beyond redemption of one kind or another.

defstarsteve - 12-8-2005 at 05:01 PM

and man I am trying....
and I am sure you are as well... as well as all of the parents on the board
but it's us against the world it seems,
and the world is winning
my kids are bright and well behaved, and have a good sense of right and wrong,
but we also can't shelter them so much that they are completly unable to deal with the harsh situations that the world will present when they go out into it
my kids are the only reason I work as hard as I do and are my only ray of sunshine. I am hoping to build something for them to have in future, if there is one, and instill in them the vaules of hard work, and responsability that it takes to be a good person. But how come it seems that noone else gives a shit about anything anymore

I got into punk and hardcore as I was a loner skater kid, and in the lyrics and values that were persented to me I could see others like myself who felt the world was fucked and this was the last place for sanity...
and now it's gone as well
if people want to kill each other in the streets like animals fuck it let em, it's how they are conditioned to be and I am too tired to care about them anymore

BDx13 - 12-8-2005 at 05:09 PM

Hairy Darrin - FSU

confused13 - 12-8-2005 at 05:23 PM

Oh man - i'm glad to live in a land where handguns are not so easy to get like in the USA. The good old one o one is the only fair way to prove your strenght.

CR83 - 12-8-2005 at 05:32 PM

Do you think people will bring up some comparison on FSU and Bullshit fights now? This is so fucking wrong, the whole thing.

Does anyone know if the bands are still playing in Vegas tonight?

Ed - 12-8-2005 at 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by defstarsteve
I am not looking to start an arguement
I was just stating that the "rap culture" excuse for kids acting like idiots is only the frosting on the cake...

the problems are a lot more serious then some kids wanting to be like 50 cent

and lets look at the facts behind the rap culture....

who sells this culture...
white corporations, record labels and movie studios,

who buys it
the majority is suburban white kids

what are they selling,
an image being protrayed by idiots who act the toughtest, and talk the most shit, about things they have little if anything to do with.

This style of rap outsells other forms of rap at incedible rates

why is it so popular with suburban white kids

this goes back to their parents,
they have neglected these kids in pursuit of their own personal gains and left them with no guidance what so ever.

They abandon them as soon as they are born into daycare and school, while they rush around trying to pursue some kind of image of the perfect homelife, the best job, the best home, the best car.

it always has to be better, and they push these same ideals into their kids, but don't guide them to understand any of it, so the kids react like their parnets,

I need to be tougher, I need more, and then they are getting influeneced by these outside sources, (since the parents are not around to guide them) the media, music, movies and video games and they see the same paterns as in thier parents

I am the hardest rapper, I shot a 100 mother fuckas...
and I killed every mofo in that game....

blaming the media and rap is just a cop out in my opinon, it's all of our faults for letting it get like this.

we live in a negative culture that we have built and then we are pissed off when negative shit happens, and we look to the easy out instead of looking at what is truely wrong with the situation...

Your not starting a argument in the least Steve. I see your point and agree 100%. I was stating something that I see that really bothers me in the scene, I guess it is more of a surface observation while your point goes alot deeper than mine. It just sucks that somebody had to loose there life at a show, this kind of thing is really hard for me to swallow.

defstarsteve - 12-8-2005 at 06:43 PM

and I see your point as well...
a lot of stupid people have jumped on board as of late....

maybe this is a little harsh,
but you could just call it natural selection and a thinning of the herd...

Voodoobillyman - 12-8-2005 at 06:54 PM

the dude was a member of fsu, that dosent mean he deserved to die, but lets face it, most fsu dudes i have met are constantly on this quest to prove how hard and dedicated they are. just seems like par for the course to me. Steve, i am trying, and your right, its hard as all hell not to give in and all, fuckin breeders. they fill the world with little armies of kids just as fucked up and dumbshit as themselves. what can ya do?

forsaken - 12-9-2005 at 02:28 AM

Every show I go to here I am thankful I am 10,000 miles from all this bullshit and drama that can turn something you love into something you despise. I'm not a posi fag, but i'd rather a positive supportive scene full of fun kids than a scene full of wankers out to prove how hard they are.

This is a tragedy, crew/gang member or not ... I know theres assholes in FSU but theres nice guys as well and unless you knew the dude personally you can't judge it.

Poor guy.

Voodoobillyman - 12-9-2005 at 08:54 AM

Quote:

I know theres assholes in FSU but theres nice guys as well and unless you knew the dude personally you can't judge it.

Thats why I said "most" I didnt know him, and I have met a few that were not on a constant warpath to "fuck shit up" All I was saying was that I have seen those dudes involved in so much bullshit over the years it does not surprise me that a member was shot. I didnt say he deserved it, I said it was not surprising to hear about. He is not the first member to die because of their violent tendencies and he wont be the last. There is no justification for his murder unless he was threatening murder or dire bodily harm to someone else and they did it in self defense. I have seen those shitbags take garden tools to shows (yes garden tools) and proceed to gang up on one or two kids who dared to "dance" while they were "dancing" If it were me, I would have shot the fuckers too, just me though. Without knowing all the facts there is no way to judge either way, but I do know if it comes down to you or me, and sometimes it does in these situations, it's you if I have anything to say about it.

i guess it was only a matter of time

BDx13 - 12-9-2005 at 10:29 AM

some how we are partially responsible for this tragedy:
http://punknews.org/comments.php?op=showreply&tid=428566&sid...

KyleOz - 12-9-2005 at 11:22 AM

That was pretty a ignorant statement.

How could someone even come to that assumption?

edit:

Who fucking cares? Their fans are the same sort of moshmetaltrailertards who ruin every show they attend.

NO MORE METALCORE, NO MORE NYHC. Stay the fuck away from my fucking scene.

-Ken

It also a lot easier to talk trash on a whole fanbase when you only sign "- Ken" at the end of rant. At least he could do is not retain anonymity, so maybe we can stay away from "his" scene.

XHonusWagnerX - 12-9-2005 at 12:47 PM

This story is sickening and you can file it away with reasons why I dont like Hardcore as much anymore. This is a HUGE reason that the thread "Hardcore Music Today" exists. The fact that something like this can happen at a hardcore show is a huge sign that the hardcore that I knew and loved is dead.

I remember being a young kid and being scared to get hit by a big guy in the pit. That progressed to people being singled out and attacked for little to no reason at all or groups of people going to a show just to try and start a riot (Shelter in Cambridge). So now I have to worry about getting shot!? What the fuck has the world come to?

I think Ill just stay home so I dont to worry that I might be wearing a shirt of a Boston band to a show of a New York band and get beat up over it.

Hardcore is Dead.

clevohardcore - 12-9-2005 at 06:05 PM

I am suprised this wasn't put up earlier. It was all over lambgoat and they were fucking around with FSU and shit. SOunds like self defense to me and that kid knew he would get jumped. So instead of running he came pakcing jsut like the FSU dude with the hammer or whatever he had. It's fucked up none the less. Should have never happened.

BDx13 - 12-9-2005 at 06:16 PM

we'll never really know what happened at that show. too much hearsay on the internet.

i doubt it will have much of an effect, but i would hope that this would serve as somewhat of a wakeup call to the hardcore community. get your act together and realize what's important in life.

defstarsteve - 12-9-2005 at 06:30 PM

he has a concealed weapons permit...
and in arizona they don't fuck around with those,
he'll walk...

and fsu will come after him,
and then there will be a big east cost/west coast rivalry, and 2 pac and biggie will both die...
damn our scene is fucked

Mark Lind - 12-9-2005 at 08:45 PM

I generally try to stay out of commenting on shit like this but I saw a story online today that I thought you might be interested in reading:

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?...

Becky Pallack of the Arizona Daily Star has issued the following report:

It was a scary and tragic night for Tucson teens as a violent crew from the Phoenix area invaded Skrappy's, a local youth hangout.

Before the night was done, one man was dead and several other people were injured.

The identity of the gunman, who was questioned by investigators at the scene, has not been released by police. He is considered an investigative lead and has not been charged with a crime, said Sgt. Ramon Batista, a Tucson Police Department spokesman.

Dozens of concert-goers were questioned until the early-morning hours Thursday, said Batista, but no arrests have been made in the case.

The fatal shooting was the seventh in the Downtown area this year.

Five bands were playing an all-ages show at Skrappy's, 201 E. Broadway, on Wednesday night.

One of the bands, SHATTERED REALM, a hard-core metal band with ties to violent gang FSU, had been recommended to Skrappy's staff by the other bands, said Sue Krahe-Eggleston, executive director of Our Family Services, the nonprofit group behind Skrappy's.

But it was quickly apparent something was wrong when, during the band's second song, a group of adults "invaded" the club and started shoving people, she said.

Skrappy's staff members turned off the music, turned up the lights, called police and forced the fight outside into the parking lot. There, pushing escalated into a brawl when some of the adults, wearing FSU shirts, grabbed weapons from cars, Krahe-Eggleston said. Someone was hit in the head with a hammer, another was threatened with a machete, she said.

People, some with injuries, were running out of the building as chaos kicked in, said Batista.

One young man, a regular at Skrappy's, ran to his own car to get away from an assailant who had injured his head and face. But once inside, someone started smashing his windows, according to witness accounts.

"He was trying to protect himself," Krahe-Eggleston said.

The man, who is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, pulled a pistol from his car, Krahe-Eggleston said.

He fired at least once, striking Ray "Hairy Darrin" Pierson, 27, of Mesa as he assaulted someone else, Batista said.

Pierson died at a hospital, he said.

When police arrived, they found the man with the gun next to Pierson's body, Batista said. Police held the man at gunpoint until he could be detained.

[View photos of the scene outside Skrappy's: Photo#1, Photo#2.]

Police will present the case to prosecutors, who will determine whether the shooting was justified as self-defense, he said.

The violent gang FSU has been in the Phoenix area for a while, but its existence was unknown to local police until the shooting Wednesday.

The gang is linked to hard-core music, which is accompanied by a violent style of dancing.

Pierson identified himself as a member of FSU on a Web site for Team Loco, a Phoenix-area crew that started as a BMX club.

A memorial for Pierson posted on the Team Loco Web site describes him as "our Team Loco/FSU brother." The site shows pictures of Pierson having fun with friends and encourages members to show sympathy to Pierson's family and lean on fellow members for support.

Efforts to contact the sponsors of the Team Loco Web site were not successful.
Some of the people wearing FSU T-shirts at the concert came with the band from Phoenix, said witnesses and police.

SHATTERED REALM's Web site shows links to FSU, including one band member's FSU tattoo.

Staff members and youths at Skrappy's were shocked and outraged that a gang came into their "safe haven."

Youths who showed up at Skrappy's on Thursday night said their hangout has been a safe place for years.

"Skrappy's is a second home to a lot of kids and sometimes even a first home," said Kali Williams, 16.

"This is the only place I can go to get away from it all," said Josie Tijerino, 15. "And if that's gone, I don't know what I'm gonna do."

Concerts this weekend have been canceled, but Skrappy's doors will be open to youths who want to talk.

"Our greatest concern right now is making sure young people know our doors are staying open," said Kevin Jackson, a staff member. "The people here will be here for them."

"It's been a relatively trouble-free place," said Officer Chris Wildblood, who patrols the neighborhood and responded to the fight.

"They've taken care of their venue on their own and they haven't needed a lot of police assistance."

Police were called to Skrappy's five other times this year, including one call for an assault victim with a minor injury. The other calls were for property crimes.

clevohardcore - 12-9-2005 at 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by defstarsteve
he has a concealed weapons permit...
and in arizona they don't fuck around with those,
he'll walk...

and fsu will come after him,
and then there will be a big east cost/west coast rivalry, and 2 pac and biggie will both die...
damn our scene is fucked

^^^ HAHAHAHAHA DONNYBROOK vs MADBALL. Terrors Scott Vogel will get booted from Cali and try and come back to NY. Then he will get booted from their. Try and move to the midwest and get beat up like Dwid or Chubby.

clevohardcore - 12-9-2005 at 10:36 PM

It sucks either way. This shit ain't going nowhere. Now others got to rep their city and up the AZ incident. Its sad. If what was great about hardcore isn't dead yet its on its last leg. I hate saying it but shit is not the same anymore.

Voodoobillyman - 12-10-2005 at 04:58 PM

"hardcore" is crap now, and has been for a long time,there are a few trying to keep it alive but the effort is futile. let it go, buncha fuckin morons.
FSU, and all the other crap like it is foolishness for the young, let them have it, I'm too old for this shit, and quite frankly it's boring. If they want to fuck with people until they are forced to pull guns and kill in self defense, let em. Not much of a loss in my opinion.

CR83 - 12-12-2005 at 12:25 PM

I just don't fucking get it? Why there are fights at shows and then knives, hammers and fucking guns?! Makes me so fucking mad. All this shit just makes me enjoy music more and more by myself vs. heading out to shows. It's all so fucking dumb.

thedog - 12-12-2005 at 04:59 PM

This post shows another reason why the Thorp Board and the people on here are awesome.
When news as unfortunate as this gets posted on here people talk about it with compassion and class, and understand that someone losing there life is a very unfortunate thing.

Reading some of those other boards linked in this post, and hearing people just totally disrespect this situation. Someone actually said they hoped the guy that was killed had kids.
what the fuck?

Like Duane said we wont know what really happened, but its unfortunate that someone lost his life over what probably started out as some senseless violence.

CR83 - 12-12-2005 at 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by thedog
This post shows another reason why the Thorp Board and the people on here are awesome.
When news as unfortunate as this gets posted on here people talk about with compassion and class, and understand that someone losing there life is a very unfortunate thing.

Reading some of those other boards linked in this post made, and hearing people just totally disrespect this situation. Someone actually said they hoped the guy that was killed had kids.
what the fuck?

Like Duane said we wont know what really happened, but its unfortunate that someone lost his life over what probably started out as some senseless violence.

Perfectly Said

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-13-2005 at 12:54 AM

First: AZ is really leanent on Guns. So pretty much everyone packs.
Second: When someone is coming at you, with a machete... all bets are off.
And last....
Seriosuly, if you dont have love for Hardcore... Why are you still around?
Why do people try to cling to the last golden thread of memoryof their youth in the hxc scene?

clevohardcore - 12-13-2005 at 01:20 AM

I have no idea. Maybe it has to do with the past and getting old. I feel it sometimes. I look back and think about what it is and will always be for me, and then we have what its become. I think it is very different. Some things I like and some I don't but all in all its still the same thing I got into back then. Just the guitars are tuned different. the assholes were always their. Back then they had shaved heads and wore suspenders and white laces in their boots. Now they have letter tags on their fancy shirts and carry hammers instead of brassknuckles. It's all evolution again thats all. It happened back then and its all happening again.

tireironsaint - 12-13-2005 at 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GabeTexasGAMC
if you dont have love for Hardcore... Why are you still around?
Why do people try to cling to the last golden thread of memoryof their youth in the hxc scene?

Honestly, I've dropped out of/given up on Hard Core a couple of times already. It's something that has meant so much to me over the years and in all honesty, saved my life, but it's become something completely different. Every once in a while an amazing band comes out of nowhere and reminds me why this thing has been so fuckin' important to me, but more often than not I'm overwhelmed by the disgusting joke this scene has become. Much like why I almost never say anything about having the edge to people that don't already know. It means something to me, but the farce that claims the name now bears no resemblance to what is in my heart. I can never fully let go, just because there will always be a spark of what it was (or what it truly is) buried in there somewhere.

BDx13 - 12-13-2005 at 01:41 AM

i don't feel like "today's music is different from what it was when i was 15 so it's not hardcore." sure, i'm nostalgic for the old days, but that was then, this is now.

i kind of think to the hardcore scene like i do skateboarding. both are primarially made up of people of a certain age. like skaters and hardcore kids are perpetually 13-19; like a window in time. when you're young and you're apporaching that window, it looks great, you're in awe of it and you can't wait to be part. then by the time youre past the window, you're jaded, maybe a little tired, even critical of it.

but the more time that passes , the more the "scene" changes. in the 80's, ollieing a couple stairs was the shit. now ollieing off of roofs is the thing to do. same deal with hardcore... steel toe shoes were big when i was a kid. now (apparently) it's hammers and guns. not only can i not ollie off a roof, but i have no intention going to a show strapped.

does than mean i'm not hardcore? does the fact that i still do 360 bonelesses make me not a skater? i don't know. and really, i don't care. i like to skate and i like to listen to hardcore, but i really wouldn't consider myself a skater or a hardcore kid, and frankly, the label doesn't matter anyway.

clevohardcore - 12-13-2005 at 01:44 AM

"360 bonelesses "

HAHAHAHAHAHA! Nice.

Voodoobillyman - 12-13-2005 at 12:03 PM

I hate the term "scene" it has become a farce. I listen to some music, that people in the "scene" call "hardcore" whatever that means anymore. I do not go to shows with "hardcore" bands, nor do I wear "hardcore gear" I have distanced myself from something that use to mean alot to me when I was younger but has become a joke compared to what it used to mean. The last show I went to that could be called "hardcore" was Ramallah with the Unseen and Brain Failure, and it was all little kids, my friend and I were only two of maybe 10 or so people over 21 and all I saw was kids trying to act tougher than one another to impress who? Fortunately it hasnt gotten to the point of hammers and guns yet in VA. but I can totally see these pukes thinking that was cool and "hard" and emmulating it.

"if you dont have love for Hardcore... Why are you still around?"

In answer to this question, I am still around for the music (what little decent music there is left) not for the "scene" if that makes me untrue or a poser or whatever, who cares, I'm 30 with a family and too busy with real life for the kiddies games.

CR83 - 12-13-2005 at 04:21 PM

BD and Voodoo have made awesome points. I too am that 30 year old guy in the back or by the bar if I go to a show. I'm not in the middle of it and jumping off of the stage. Hell, I don't even drink at shows anymore. Going to shows is still fun for me. I love the live aspect, the emotions and the vibe at a live show. I never want to have to worry about who is packing what. I just want to listen to good music and see a fun show. I'm not in a crew, I'm not dressed up and I'm not showing off my ink when I go either.

I'm a family man who will still go to shows and listen to Hardcore music. I don't know what that makes me but all in all I'm a very happy and lucky person.

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-13-2005 at 07:43 PM

wierd.
when i think of hxc, i think of our kids... and i forget that most kids in other scenes suck ass.
Our kids are for the most part unspoiled and dont start too much trouble.
Im going on 29, have an awesome family, and am still super saturated in the "scene". booking shows, playing in bands... I love it. I dont think i could ever stay away. I understand being burnt out on the kids and the scene though. It happens to me once or twice a year. but somthing always renergizes me, be it a band, or a friend, or a board full of drunks and awesome dudes that makes me rememeber why I do what I do.

Voodoobillyman - 12-13-2005 at 09:27 PM

Quote:

when i think of hxc, i think of our kids... and i forget that most kids in other scenes suck ass

This is why I have to move to Texas

BDx13 - 12-14-2005 at 12:01 AM

yeah, texas seems to have a pretty good thing going on.
and remember, gabe has nice things to say even after he got kicked off his own town's hxc messageboard!

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-14-2005 at 12:03 AM

no shit! I still cant believe i got banned for talking shit on Have Heart!
Hitting the webmaster probably didnt help either.

BDx13 - 12-14-2005 at 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GabeTexasGAMC
Hitting the webmaster probably didnt help either.

that sentence is amazing!

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-14-2005 at 01:27 AM

hahahaha... dude. he had it coming.
Who cares... i take care of the city, with or without a message board.

Voodoobillyman - 12-14-2005 at 08:00 AM

Quote:

i take care of the city,

Thats is the exact problem I have with Hardcore now.......too much crap and terrible music being made and not enough of this.

Endgame - 12-15-2005 at 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KyleOz
Anything is going too far when somebody loses their life.

Ed - 12-15-2005 at 12:00 PM

Quote:

The Thorp boards are great. I was thinking this same thing.

ENDERA.x - 12-16-2005 at 11:09 PM

in this case, i dont know really what went down but I 'read' that it had something to do with some ppl not wanting the rest of the peepz to mosh or something stupid... I'm not saying its true I'm just saying its what I read somewhere.
And it just escalated with fighting and b/s outside or whatever...

I don't think this incident had shit to do with any particular cultural influence in the scenes - hiphop or hardcore...

I think its just plain ignorance / stupidty here

Although look at what our music is called: Hardcore
So? Just how HARDCORE is hardcore??? When hardcore becomes, more hardcore? What's a kid to do?

I didnt really think this would ever happen at a hc show...but it did. And I'm actually NOT suprised.
I'm just glad shit doesnt get that outta hand that often, especially over - if from what was read is true, moshing - or something like that.

I presume, just some stupid fuckin surburan dude who believes hes hard or something, that aint hard. Ya dont shoot unarmed people, especially when its over some b/s when everyone probably coulda just walked off and never seen eachother again.. never thinkin twice about whos the tougher person cuz it just doesnt fucking matter

ENDERA.x - 12-16-2005 at 11:16 PM

and yes.

If everyone on the thorp boards was at a show together and no one else.
It would be somethin else I tell ya!

KyleOz - 12-16-2005 at 11:42 PM

Or maybe a kid who feared for his life and his passenger's while being pursued by a crew. There are always different views and sides of the stories. What I am basically saying is we will never know because none of us were there, so we really shouldn't make assumptions of the gunman's background or the victim's either and the circumstances that lead up to this. All we know is it escalated to something it shouldn't have and someone lost their life.

JawnDiablo - 12-17-2005 at 08:27 AM

i dont know any FSU dudes
none of my pals been murdered by them
not my thing
i thought being persued by AC skins was bad when i was a kid
this kind of shit disgusts me
i go to shows (few and far between) to have fun and get loaded or whatever.
thugs aint cool
personally i dont enjoy hurting others, yeah guess im a bitch
i was never a tuff guy
never wanted to be
boneheads beating others down at shows like this piss me off..and it ruins shit for everyone
i really dont even know why i am even adding to it at this point
everythings been said and done....

KyleOz - 12-17-2005 at 10:43 AM

That was directed towards endera's post for the most part about some white surburban kid trying to be hard. That is a really stupid stereotype to begin with, because anyone anywhere can be hard or tougher than you even though you shouldn't strive for that in the first place. Maybe it started out as the kid sticking up for himself and decided not to be coward like a majority of people opt to when shows involve certain crews.

The way things played out and the scenarios that lead up to them are infinite.

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-17-2005 at 04:21 PM

I found out that we knew the dude who had the gun.
he was neither "HARD", or a "tough guy". AZ has lax gun laws, and those dudes carry them all over, not just to shows.
The whole thing was stupid, i wish it would have never happened... but it did. and people need to realize that for every action, theres a reaction.

Voodoobillyman - 12-17-2005 at 05:45 PM

Quote:

Ya dont shoot unarmed people, especially when its over some b/s when everyone probably coulda just walked off and never seen eachother again.

Maybe I misread, but werent the crew guys (FSU) hitting people with hammers? Including the kid who pulled the gun and shot one of them, if thats the way it went down then thats self defense in my book.

CR83 - 12-19-2005 at 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ENDERA.x
and yes.

If everyone on the thorp boards was at a show together and no one else.
It would be somethin else I tell ya!

How do we get this done?

JawnDiablo - 12-19-2005 at 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisReed83

Quote:

Originally posted by ENDERA.x
and yes.

If everyone on the thorp boards was at a show together and no one else.
It would be somethin else I tell ya!

How do we get this done?

easy
everyone comes to philadelphia for the next bad vibes show
oh
wait
thats only convenient for me geoff and the dog....

MyOwnWay - 12-19-2005 at 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by juandiablo

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisReed83

Quote:

Originally posted by ENDERA.x
and yes.

If everyone on the thorp boards was at a show together and no one else.
It would be somethin else I tell ya!

How do we get this done?

easy
everyone comes to philadelphia for the next bad vibes show
oh
wait
thats only convenient for me geoff and the dog....

I'd be good for this.

jason kills - 12-20-2005 at 12:07 AM

one of my bros just got stabbed here a couple days back. some little fashion kid with a ton of money stabbed him twice. collapsed lung and everything. dont know how everythign is going to play out, but shit seems to be falling apart across the board.

this is fucked. miss going to all the vfw hall shows where hardcore, emo, metal, doom, grind bands would play together and everyone chilled.

laredo still remains the best scene in tx

GabeTexasGAMC - 12-20-2005 at 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jason kills
laredo still remains the best scene in tx

You know it.
All we need to do is find a decent place to rent out.

CR83 - 12-20-2005 at 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jason kills
one of my bros just got stabbed here a couple days back. some little fashion kid with a ton of money stabbed him twice. collapsed lung and everything. dont know how everythign is going to play out, but shit seems to be falling apart across the board.

this is fucked. miss going to all the vfw hall shows where hardcore, emo, metal, doom, grind bands would play together and everyone chilled.

laredo still remains the best scene in tx

That fucking sucks. Shootings and stabbings? WHAT THE FUCK?!!! I'm begining to hate this shit. Remember when it was about music?